FINCHforum

hello all new to the site just woundering if there many breeding goldfinches on this site?kept birds the last 15years or so but new to goldfinches and going to try hybrids.

I definately say NO to breeding hybrids .....

ray

bar21, welcome to the forum. If you will update your profile to show your location, it will help answer questions. I don't know anything about goldfinches except that they have a lovely song. I agree with ray, in saying no to hybrids, especially to species that are being imported now. My reasoning is that one of these days, imports into the United States will end, and then we will be left with only what we have already and can breed, and if we dilute the species bloodlines, it will just make it harder to find pure specimens down the line.

i see your point on hybrids in the points you made in refrance to the US but hear in ireland there is any amount of goldfinch breeders and we dont need to import them.the goldfinch *bullfinch hybrid is are breed for showing didnt think there was any no no with doing it,dont know much about breeding them its not that easy i would imagen.

forget the hybrid breeding and try to breed with only goldfinches or bullfinches , and than i would say congrats to you when you have young ones .... why wasting time , money and the honor by breeding hybrids who mess up the real pure specimens .

ray

I personally do not cross breed...... but I do not think it is okay to do so. After all, if there where no cross breeding done in dogs and cats we wouldn't have all the unique breeds that we have now. Some birds are getting so domesticated that it would be ashame not to experiment. Look at the chicken industry..... awesome breeds that were aquired by crossing.
After saying all that, I personally have not found that man can improve upon nature...... The regular gouldians to me are still the most beautiful, The red and green of the paroot finches outshines any pied I have ever seen, etc. But then again I guess it is in the eye of the beholder.
A site you may check out for breeding euopeans, canaries, bullfinches is www.abbaseed.com They have many articles on the breeding in other countries, which standards are different than ours. Good luck, but don't loose sight of the original true bird. You will need them to cross back to. Just like in species color breeding it helps to breed back to the origanal for strenght.

Typo error...meant to say I think it okay to do so..... I need to proof read

Just have to put in my 2 cents worth that I do NOT think it is okay to cross breed. I don't agree with creating hybrids (no typo there) in birds or dogs and cats either. Although I'm sure Society Finches were original created by cross breeding - from what originals? I think our current 'original strains' may get lost with too much hyridizing.

L in Ontario wrote:Just have to put in my 2 cents worth that I do NOT think it is okay to cross breed. I don't agree with creating hybrids (no typo there) in birds or dogs and cats either. Although I'm sure Society Finches were original created by cross breeding - from what originals? I think our current 'original strains' may get lost with too much hyridizing.

I think creating hybrids is ok, somehow interesting , but it will take a lot of money, and time, I'll try do do some when I am retire
Liz, I believe that Society were created mostly by breeding the Longchura striata. Some friends of mine did breed Society finch and "the wild form of it"(Lonchura striata) to have a better, healthier birds. And if you breed Lonchura striata with Lonchura punctulata, you will have a really good looking bird, much more healthier, and do foster really good, even better then Social finch!

All dog breeds were a result of crosses....such as the basset hound was breed to be low to the ground with long sweeping ears, many wrinkles to collect scents for his large nose to identify and track. Most crosses are produced to serve a useful purpose for man. Mules for work, Homing pigeons for work, quarter horses for their hearding skills, clydesdale for their draft ability. Butterball turkeys for their large breast and eatability....etc.
I wonder how England gets those giant Zebra finches or large english budgies........
I personally don't see any benefit from crosses with cage birds.... maybe it is for the same reason so many try and breed a beautifully colored gouldian to be a plain silver color...... I guess it is the genetic experimentation and the rarity that drives them.... I like my goulds with colors personally. Also I have seen pied red throated parrot finches that had so much yellow they almost look like a canary !!! I just don't get that either.
I think there are enough breeders out there like me that breed true birds to the true colors that we don't have to be worried abouth loosing the pure strains. The messages in this post attest to that.
However I would never dictate to another, especially in a country where there are no import regulations, what is right or wrong to do with their pet.
I just pray that all birds bred are taken care of responsibly. Whatever they may be. I think this forum should serve to support fellow members and give helpful information.

CandoAviary wrote:....
I think there are enough breeders out there like me that breed true birds to the true colors that we don't have to be worried abouth loosing the pure strains. The messages in this post attest to that.
However I would never dictate to another, especially in a country where there are no import regulations, what is right or wrong to do with their pet.
I just pray that all birds bred are taken care of responsibly. Whatever they may be. I think this forum should serve to support fellow members and give helpful information.

Good point. Taking the best care of your birds that you can is the thing we all hope for all our members. No matter what kind of birds.

I didn't think that expressing your dislike of hybrids is being unsupportive to the forum members at all. It's an opinion, and those that feel that way have a pretty valid reason for their beliefs. So they choose not to do it and let others know why they don't like it. That's a good thing. A darn good thing that many feel that way. It ensures that the pure strains will still be around for a long time!

I personally can understand the interest in breeding for specific traits/colours/size which is what it's all about really. Not everyone will agree that the outcome one person is looking for, is what someone else will like.

There are certainly enough who are against it, to keep the pure strains going, which is also beneficial to those working with hybrids really. So I say, go for it, if it's what interests you.

HoangQuan wrote:I think creating hybrids is ok, somehow interesting , but it will take a lot of money, and time, I'll try do do some when I am retire

That's what I really like about this forum that we can all say what we believe in (or not) and not get overly ruffled about it. Hybridizing birds is not something I'll do (although some day I may change my mind - never say never).

CandoAviary wrote:All dog breeds were a result of crosses...

So there are NO pure dog breeds? I just learned something new!

No pure dogs..... All dogs came from canis lupus...aka the wolf. Dogs are canis familiaris. That is why even our smallest chihuahua look for the leader of the pack...and if they do not find it become the leader and expect you to follow them....
I have never crossed birds but I have produced magnificent wolf-hybrids. If you ever saw the disney movie White Fang, that was a hybrid of 72 %.
It retained the wolf intelligence, looks, vocals but had the trainability of a dog. The result of very successful, several generations of carfully selected breeding.( I did not produce that dog but had some of the same genetic pool as that dog)
Some experts argue that the red wolf is a result of a grey wolf crossed with a coyote... again same DNA, the way they classify the different strains of wolves is by the skull characteristics......
Wolves and dogs DNA is the same. So it is not really a true hybrid, just mutations of a species. Unlike a donkey and horse producing a mule or jenny....... most are sterile. That is why I would not bother with crossing 2 distinct species of birds......... I wouldn't want to risk sterile birds.
Have you ever seen a scottish fold cat? They have ears that hang down. A result in select mutation breeding and are viable. The Liger, lion and tiger is a cross species and are sterile.

just to get it straight what he wants to do ( and thats not a grey zebra times a white one , cos thats still a zebrafinch ) .. what he wants and what some other people do is like a bullfinch times canary or goldfinch times canary .... and why ??? because they think the hybrid would be singing better than a canary or a green singer .... years ago it was normal to see hybrids in shows here in Holland , and lucky us serious breeders and birdlovers they changed it all and 98% of all groups that had hybrids in it are forbidden now .... the reason was that it is still not proven that all ( or most ) hybrids are invertile . for me and thats my personal opinion , i never would support or giving breeders any advise on this subject . what others do well thats on there name

Ray