UPDATE: 1/27 ~ Odd Green Singing Finch breeding(?) behavior

[Animal Quackers]

UPDATE 1/09: This crazy couple laid another egg! That is exactly one week from the date the LAST egg was laid...The nest is sorry as heck...hardly any material in it. I really want to help, but I am thinking it is best to leave well enough alone!

I candled their first clutch yesterday, and it looked to me like big yellow yolks and air bubbles...but I have never done this before so I am not sure I know what I am looking at (only have photos posted here to go by), but I certainly did not see anything that looked like red veins. Those eggs - along with one laid by the Society - are still under the Society. I thought I would candle them all again tomorrow - that would make the eggs between 8-10 days old, and the lone Society egg would be 6 days old. I should be able to tell for sure then, right?

Thanks for all the help!
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Hi again everyone,

I have a few questions about our Green Singers, but first a little background:

They spent several days earlier in December flying all over the cage with bits of nesting material in their beaks. They mated that I saw several times, and built the saddest looking nest imaginable! I helped them out by adding to it, and for my first attempt, I was pretty pleased with the nest I built for them. They proceeded to lay three eggs, one a day for three days. The nest is in the top left corner of the cage and is very sheltered with silk greenery, making it very private for them.

The hen incubated well for one day, then more or less stopped. We waited one day to see if she would return to the nest, but she did not sit tight so we removed the eggs and placed them under a Society hen who had laid one egg the day before. For the moment, we are leaving the Society hen in the large indoor community cage with three other Societies, and Spice, and an Indian Silverbill. There is almost always at least one finch incubating...sometimes up to all six! It was suggested to me in a kind response to another post I made here that I remove the entire nestbox and the suspected parents before the eggs hatch for fear that six finches on babies might lead to flat babies! And I will do so...

My questions are really about the Green Singers. Since I removed the eggs and replaced them with fake eggs, the Singers have proceeded to totally deconstruct the nest they and I built. I have left the three fakes eggs in there. The Singers are again flying all over the cage with bits of nesting material in their mouths. They have been doing this for three days, but there is not a single bit of nesting material IN the nest! It's like they are just playing with the bits of nesting material, or do not know what to do with it! I have seen the male feeding the female again, and I have seen them mating again. But they sure do not have nest-building or incubating down!

Should I remove the fake eggs in their nest? Should I make another nest for them? Should I decrease the amount of full spectrum light they are getting every day and try to get them on a more "natural" (wintertime) schedule and try again in the springtime? Should I just stop worrying and leave them alone?

I have to check my calendar and count days to remember when exactly I placed the Singer eggs under the Society, and I think I will try candling this time (I did not do it with the canaries I have - two pair - who just laid six eggs and only two of the six eggs hatched) - it might be today or tomorrow that I can do so.

We are really just perplexed here by the Singers' behavior, and feeling a little frustrated because so many on the forum with Singers seem to have no problems with them breeding very successfully. ANY ideas, thoughts, advice, suggestions are welcomed and appreciated! Thanks in advance!

[Rayray]

take the fake eggs away , they won't sit on it again , flying around with nesting material is a sign that they are looking for a good place to build a nest but so far they didn't find it , would be an idea to give them a few more canary nest boxes on different spots with some fake x-mass pine bushes around it .

the fosters will breed on the eggs till they hatch , but i am almost sure they won't feed them .. green singers are open nest breeders like canaries are , socities are not and they don't see the colored spots on or in the beak from the chicks when they open it , cos they don't have them like real finches . hope you are lucky but having doubts .

Ray

[Animal Quackers]

Ray, Thank you so much!

I will put in a few more types of nests for the finches, in different locations in their cage. Currently, there is only one and it is a canary nest. They fly into it with the nesting material, but don't leave it in there. I will also add more silk plants.

I hate the idea that the Singer eggs could hatch, then the babies die! IF they hatch, I have a few options, and I would love to know which one you all think is the best:

1) Give the chicks to my canaries to raise. By the time the Singers are "scheduled" to hatch, the canary chicks would be 18 and 16 days old.

2) Give the chicks back to the Singers to raise.

3) Give the chicks - or the fertile eggs - back to the breeder from whom I purchased the Singers in November. She has tons of finches of all varieties and lots of canaries, too, and perhaps some of them may be in the chick-raising mood!

4) Destroy the eggs (NOT my favorite idea!)

Thank you again Ray, and I look forward to more suggestions!

[Ian]

I completely agree with Ray, the reason for abandonment is insecurity and this has since been proven by deconstruction of the nest (to liberate the materials). This happened to me in an external aviary during my learning curve, I observed the birds for some weeks attempting nests and then breaking them down until finally i decided to do something radical and with foliage completely covered the line of sight to a wire basket I had strategicaly placed. A nest was then constructed within days. I also observed the same in cage breeding, I set up identical nest receptacles in the top right hand (front) corner of each cage in a double stack and surrounded the nest with foliage. This proved fine for the pair in the lower cage (darker and more secluded) but the pair in the upper cage just would not construct and finish a nest. That is until using silk foliage I attached leafy stems to the front of the cage to effectively shut off the entrance from the line of sight. The difference was immediate, a nest was constructed and completed again within days (after just feeble efforts previously). The key is making them think that it is a safe haven and camouflaged from predatory detection. Also try and avoid disturbing except for feeding and then be as brief as possible.

Hope this helps
Ian

[Animal Quackers]

Thank you, Ian! I know you have been very successful with the Green Singers, so I value your input, as Ray's!

I thought I had the cage fairly well covered in greenery, but clearly more wouldn't hurt! I will work on it TODAY!

Thank you very much again!

[Rayray]

the best thing to do is putting them under a canary that is sitting on eggs for about the same time the fosters sitting on the green singer eggs , so asking help from the *old couples breeder* is the best option , they might ask you for a bit money but ... you got young ones

this is how i make my nests for all my * open nest breeders * and it works very good !!



Ray

[Ian]

Thank you, Ian! I know you have been very successful with the Green Singers, so I value your input, as Ray's!

I thought I had the cage fairly well covered in greenery, but clearly more wouldn't hurt! I will work on it TODAY!

Thank you very much again!

Glad to be of help, if it wasnt for all the other finch keepers on here and there great posts I certainly wouldn`t have managed to breed my singers.

Just another quick note, the foliage should be localised (around the nest) and its not the cage but the nest position. Also you might want to try a wire basket if you can and sew a nest liner in as both my pairs would not use it until i added one. Then I had trouble with them picking at it (to rough up the material) and the whole thing would move so I removed it and sewed it in then replaced it and job done!. The other thing is that foliage `around` the nest is more important than above as cup breeders and definitely this species needs to feel they can escape and dislike (generally) the dome shaped finch baskets but I believe you are using the canary type so it should be ok. Also ensure you position it very high in the cage as this is where they feel more secure. When observing mine I tried to imagine that If i were them were would I feel most secure and the first thing that came to mind was as far away from the feeders as possible (disturbance) and in an area that is furthest from my person when I change there food.

[Ian]

Just saw Rays picture and this epitomises my observations .

It is secure without preventing fast escape and has cover around but not dense enough that they cant see predators.

Females are generally less colourful than males because they want to have some camouflage on the nest and are usually a lot more drabber and have speckled markings unlike there cavity breeding cousins.

I think the most important thing is to make sure the entrance to the nest is not in full view - i.e if you are looking into the cage ensure that the entrance is from the side and the front is obscured. If you were using Rays nest container the entry side would be to the side (if this makes sense).

Good Luck

[Animal Quackers]

Thank you Ray and Ian! Please see my ORIGINAL post in this thread for an update!

[Leda]

I have a canary nest in my Green Singers cage. I put it in the back with lots of silk greenery around. I put a few coco and jute fibers in to so they would come and investigate. The next day all the coco and jute fibers were on the floor. I have tryed this several times, and all they do is empty out the nest, every thing goes on the floor and gets pooped on. They dont go down on the floor to retrive it either. Soooo, they layed their eggs on top of their Abba mineral grit, with out any nesting material. She sat tight all day, but at night she was out of there perching next to the male. Of course the eggs did not hatch, but it was a learning experience for the Singers. I had to take all D shaped food cups out of their cage because she would sit in them. It was funny, she just didnt know what to do with out her D shaped food cups. LOL

I am going to try using christmas greens this time and put the entrance to the side instead of toward the front. I think they are young yet.

[Animal Quackers]

I think they are young yet.

I am thinking the same thing for mine...today, their lone egg is broken on the floor of the cage! SIGH

[Ian]

Just thought a quick comment about nesting material is worthy of a note. Singers tend to like soft material and I have never got them to take coconut fibre. Plenty of shredded cotton wool balls and the natural string that you get at garden centres (NOT the plastic stuff) stripped and shredded. Without these materials they never started nesting!!!!\

Hope this helps.

Really heavy on the cotton wool now!!

[Leda]

Sorry about your egg Michelle.
Ian, what is cotton wool? Maybe we do not have such a thing here in the States. Is it made just for birds? Do you buy it at a fabric store, than cut it in strips? Or is it a yarn type? Can you post a picture?
Michelle, are you using something for nesting that is soft? I heard feathers from a pillow works. Oh this is so hard trying to figure out what they want!!!!!

[Animal Quackers]

Thanks Leda! I swear it is day-to-day around here with them...lay an egg, throw an egg, demolish the nest, build a nest...

They have actually done a pretty good job now of building a new nest, on their own (and I saw them mating again last night!)...they need more material in it, but the bones are there and it is a start. I am going to add more nesting material - more of everything I have - to the cage today after I change the paper on the floor.

Leda - I am not sure what cotton wool is either...but I have been using the following items for them:

Torn strips of paper towel, toilet paper (unscented!), and newspaper, short strips of burlap, coconut fiber, and this fluffy cotton stuff I bought at Petco, I think: ( http://www.petco.com/product/105871/Sup ... dingLitter ). My girlfriend, who has had good luck breeding zebras and canaries, uses something that looks like lint from the dryer. I believe it, as the stuff I am using, is meant to be used as bedding by hamsters and small animals. She showed it to me, but I have not seen it at the pet stores. She said the finches love it. I will find out where she gets it. They do seem to like this cotton fluff stuff...I know my canaries used a lot of it in the construction of their nests!

[Ian]

Sorry about your egg Michelle.
Ian, what is cotton wool? Maybe we do not have such a thing here in the States. Is it made just for birds? Do you buy it at a fabric store, than cut it in strips? Or is it a yarn type? Can you post a picture?
Michelle, are you using something for nesting that is soft? I heard feathers from a pillow works. Oh this is so hard trying to figure out what they want!!!!!

Hi Sorry just saw your question,

Cant believe you guys have never heard of this????? It is usually in ball form and is used for taking makeup off etc?

cotton wool.jpg (2.21 KiB) Viewed 1493 times

You girls should know this.