Built an aviary and bought two finches.

[debbie276]

Absolutely agree with Sally
Good luck, keep us posted on what you decide

[JohnPeter]

Thank you for the repply, I see now that it's better to just give up on the female zebra, but I wanted to ask, can I add females from another species of finches, or males, can I add any bird at all besides another male zebra finch? I hate to see them fighting I don't want this to happen again.

[Sally]

Unfortunately, Zebras tend to be on the pushy and/or aggressive side, even with other species. If you stick to all males, you may be able to add a few other birds, but always be aware that you will have to watch them for compatibility. There is a chart at the Finch Information Center that lists finches by compatibility, but remember that the birds have not read these charts. You can always have a bird of a pushy/aggressive species that is an absolute angel, and then you can have a bird from a passive species that should be an angel and is an absolute devil.

I would stay away from all females, as even if a hen is a different species, the males could be stimulated into breeding behavior by her presence, and that could start the squabbling. I don't have Zebras, so can't advise what species might mix with them, but there are others on the forum who do have them and hopefully can help you.

http://www.finchinfo.com/housing/compatible_species.php

[JohnPeter]

Any zebra experts know why the birds now get along? The more dominant male even let's the other one near him and his hen, the fights have stopped at least I didn't hear them during the whole day, I don't understand those birds.

[JohnPeter]

The situation is stable in my aviary, they don't fight anymore there are no chases, I think i'm adding a bronze winged mannikin or a yellow-rumped finch, they are both for sale around here, i've read those links they seem to be peaceful what do you think? Should I add one?

[Sally]

I have no explanation for why your Zebras are suddenly getting along. Birds continue to amaze me with their different personalities, often defying what we think we know about them. As far as the other birds, I don't know anything about the Yellow-rumped finch. We don't have this bird in the U.S. as far as I know, which tells me you must be from outside the U.S. The Bronze-winged Mannikin is listed as a passive species at the FIC, but be aware that this tiny dynamo can sometimes be a feisty little guy.

[Sally]

JohnPeter Well, I just saw an ad from a guy in Houston with a Yellow-rumped Seedeater or Black-throated canary, so if that is what you are looking for, we do have them in the U.S. The scientific name is Serinus atrogularis. But I don't know anything about them.

[JohnPeter]

Sally, you're right i'm from Portugal, I can't seem to edit my profile... Maybe when I introduced the hen they were fighting over her and now it's settled? I have no idea first time I have birds.

[Sally]

JohnPeter If you click on the User Control Panel button at the top of the page, then you will see an Options menu. Click on Profile, and you should be able to add your location. There is a box for it just above the Occupation box. If you still can't do it, and want your location posted, I can do it for you. I would just put Portugal.

[Sojourner]

Sally

JohnPeter

debbie276

I agree with Sally, take the female back and keep your 2 males. Even if you pick up the eggs and discard them, breeding birds is rife with heartbreak. They can go so quickly. I lost a little bird to egg binding because she just wouldn't stop laying, and it got her just barely into her 2nd attempt to lay - and she was in the cage with only another female! Two females and she still wanted to lay eggs, the instinct is that strong. Enjoy your little guys for what they are.

There are a lot of problems that come along when you start letting them breed, such as what to do with the offspring. You can't let them flock together and breed indiscriminately because they're related. You're either going to need to sell them, give them away, or soon be running the maze of bird cages throughout your whole house, LOL!

Debby - are you sure about your calculations? If I did mine right, his aviary is 50"x42"x15.7". A 30x18x18 cage will hold 2 finches. This one ought to hold more.

I see that the Cage size calculator for finches says 2 to 3 - but this is where that calculator falls down on the job, IMO. It SHOULD take cage height into consideration. While its true that finches generally like to stay in the top of the cage, mine do use the bottom a LOT. You can very strongly influence the way your birds utilize their cage space through strategic placement of perches and feed. I feed veggie chop on the cage bottom on a plate. I put their bird bath (which they love) down there for them as well. And mine like to sleep on the bottom at night, partially due to the fact that one of them has no tail feathers and couldn't get around in his new larger cage for quite some time (he needed to build up wing muscles from being in a much too small cage before I got him, plus they don't maneuver nearly as well without tail feathers). However recently they experimented with sleeping on perches at night, and have reverted to sleeping in the cage bottom.

So finches WILL use that space if you help just a little to encourage them to do so. I do think that cage is just a little bit narrow, but you do what you can, right? At 50" long and 42" tall, its plenty big enough for a half dozen society finches. Breeding might change that - so just don't let them breed, or rather, don't let them sit the eggs since you're not going to stop mixed pairs from breeding, LOL!

Societies get along particularly well with each other (in general) - so changing the breed can change the equation. But you ought to do pretty well with 4 to 6 finches in that cage.

[Sojourner]

The situation is stable in my aviary, they don't fight anymore there are no chases, I think i'm adding a bronze winged mannikin or a yellow-rumped finch, they are both for sale around here, i've read those links they seem to be peaceful what do you think? Should I add one?

I wouldn't add more different species to that aviary. Its just too small. If you want multiple species, the safest way to go about it is to have a real aviary that is large enough for you to walk around in. And even then different species will occasionally fight to the death.

As for changes in bird behavior/aggression - there are a lot of reasons why things may be in an uproar and then calm down. Such as:

• Mating instincts are triggered by day length, feed availability - birds change their behavior patterns and become more aggressive during breeding
• When introducing new birds to the cage, or if there is a change in the condition of one of your birds, the "pecking order" will often change, and while this is going on there will be a LOT more jockeying for position - and that is exactly what they are doing, finding their position in the new hierarchy. Once that's been established, things will generally calm down again. This can take longer if there are 2 birds who are almost equally aggressive who are "next to" each other in the pecking order, because they will continue to jockey with each other and maybe even one or two of the birds closest to them in the pecking order. I have a pair of budgies who never really agree on who's the boss and they squabble (but fortunately do not have knock-down-drag-out fight) over perch position all the time.
• Access to food and water. With more than just one or two birds in a cage, feeding stations become a potential bottleneck and the cause of territorial pressure and disputes. I keep plenty of feed cups all around the cage in different positions. I like to have at least one feeder filled with their main diet for each pair of birds. Then I want at least one treat cup for each bird. When there are at least as many feeding stations as there are birds, this type of aggression can nearly always be eliminated or at least reduced to negligible levels. I've never seen them fight over water, only food - but I've never had more than 6 or 8 birds in one cage, either. If I ever meet my goal of having a mininimum 6' flight path for my guys, additional water stations wouldn't be a horrible idea and may be necessary when there are more than just the one pair-bonded set in the cage.
• Perches are also often bones of contention. I like to leave a clear flight path from one end of the cage to the other. I have a perch at either end of my F075/F070 cage - 36" of flight space, but only 20" tall. I have shorter perches near feeding stations, and one irregular manzanita branch (a very wiggledy branch) that is in one half of the cage. So moving, removing, or adding perches can eliminate or CAUSE aggressive displays. When I get taller cages, there will be more perches at different levels, with the longer perches on 2 or 3 levels at either end of the cage.
• Roosting sites can become bones of contention as well. Provide safe foliage so birds can roost unseen, or get stress perches.

Move anything in the cage and you can totally change the cage dynamic, for no apparent reason. It took me FOREVER to figure out why my 2 new rescue budgies wouldn't get down into the bottom of the cage and eat their yummy vegetables. It's because they can't see out of the cage bottom - its' one of those Preview cages that has the 6" deep plastic bottom. And they don't trust me. So they ESPECIALLY don't trust me if they can't see me.

They are starting to go down there some now, but every time I move or add something to the cage, they get all suspicious all over again. This makes them squabble more with each other, as well as watching me like hawks, LOL!

[debbie276]

I see that the Cage size calculator for finches says 2 to 3 - but this is where that calculator falls down on the job, IMO. It SHOULD take cage height into consideration. While its true that finches generally like to stay in the top of the cage, mine do use the bottom a LOT.

But mostly sleep on a perch up as high as they can. Breeding boxes are usually the same height and up high. While they do use the entire space the majority of the time nesting and perching is at the same level. And at breeding time it can go totally bad.
The calculator is a general recommendation not a hard fast rule. You have to use your own judgement on species and gender.

[Sojourner]

debbie276

That cage wouldn't be suitable for breeding unless you're keeping only one pair in there, IMO. I'm pretty sure the OP isn't intentionally breeding - he/she initially only had the 2 males.

The fact that everybody wants to sleep up high (except for Bambi the Tail-less Wonder, apparently) is why I suggested foliage to allow them to feel they are roosting safely, or stress perches, if needed.

As for breeding ...

... its plenty big enough for a half dozen society finches. Breeding might change that ...

There's a whole other post about things that can change flock behavior, and breeding IS one of the things mentioned there. 4 zebras should be able to find plenty of roosting space in a 50" long cage, especially if we provide foliage or stress perches for privacy.

Breeding is different from just mating. Breeding you can stop, by discarding eggs or using fake eggs (or both). Mating you just are never going to stop - even same gender bonded birds will express mating behavior from time to time.

That cage is OK for 4 zebras or 6 societies - assuming you are not breeding and are discarding eggs. If the OP gets rid of the female she/he could get 2 more males. That's the good thing about Zebras - they are dimorphic so its easy enough to keep a cage full of all one gender so as to reduce breeding behaviors and the complications that brings. All males are easier than all females because even if the males start building nests, they will never ever lay and thus won't be subject to all the things that can go wrong with that - such as egg binding.

It's pretty easy to manage single gender cages with Zebras, not so much with Societies, LOL!

That cage is NOT large enough for mixed species. I hope the OP reconsiders that idea. All (or at least all I know of) finches need to be paired. With 3 zebras in the cage, its already out of balance.

I do think the cage is too cluttered. They don't have a really good flight path all the way across the cage, plus they are reduced to having to hop around through all those branches lower in the cage. I'd take the vast majority of that stuff out of the middle and put the perches in at either end of the cage as has already been suggested several times.

Then put perches in strategic locations near feed cups and water, short perches (6", given the cage is only 16" wide) that won't interfere with the flight path, to keep them moving up and down the height of the cage as well as flying across from end to end. Right now it looks like all the feed cups are at the same level.

I use a feed silo for their main staple feed, a water silo for water (of course, LOL!), and small treat cups for everything else. This way they never bury their feed in seed hulls and I have a whole lot LESS clean-up to do every day. I only have to touch their feed cups to refill them.

All my feed cups are small, and they can't perch right ON the silos all that well, and I've placed them strategically so that even if they turn around on their perch they still won't poop in their feed even by accident. I haven't had to clean poop out of a feed cup for months now. I use the biscuit trays, the silos, and a bunch of those finger and thumb treat cups, plus one egg cup that I keep their mineral mix in. Only the egg cup has been a problem, and that just for a little while when Pye was trying to nest in it. It IS big enough for them to perch there and poop in it, but they haven't chosen to do that thus far. I also use an egg cup for their dry egg food, but I'm out of that ATM. Should have a new supply soon.

Going to small, narrow, shallow feed cups for "extras" and using a silo for their staple has reduced my cage cleaning/prep time more than anything else, even having the divided cage. Keeping their seed unburied and accessible was one of the nightmare tasks of caring for all those birds my mother kept. You had to take each and every seed cup out of each and every cage and blow the hulls off to see whether or not there was still seed in the cup.

While I was at summer camp one year, we lost a bunch of birds because my OLDER brother was too lazy to do this and several birds starved to death before I got home. (My mother was, at this point, largely bed-ridden and no longer directly caring for all those birds any more, I was the one most responsible for their care by this time though it was supposed to be a task equally divided).

I have been REALLY glad to be able to find ways to make things work better for us (me and my birds) than they did way back then!