Lady Gouldian Diet(s)

[Rainchaser]

Hello everyone,

I apologize if this is a topic that has already been addressed, but I've been receiving a ton of conflicting information and would like to hear your thoughts - what is the most nutritious diet for Lady Gouldian Finches? Specifically, is a pelleted diet superior to a seed-based diet, or vise-versa? Or are there additional alternatives that I've not come across?

Allow me to explain. I've been keeping Goulds for two years. I had done my research and thought I'd obtained a sound pair, but after a few days I noticed my male couldn't stay on his perch at night and would twirl about helplessly in the dark even with a night light, and my female's one eye was perpetually shut despite trips to the veterinarian and numerous remedies. For these reasons, I firmly decided against breeding them, but I started them out on a millet-based diet supplemented with egg shells/cuttlebone and adding synthetic vitamins to their water (which is filtered using a reverse-osmosis filtration system). I also provided a full-spectrum avian bulb on a 12-hour cycle. They seemed to do well despite their disabilities, and were active, singing, and the like.

About a year ago, I switched them to a pellet-based diet with some spray millet as a treat. They molted for the first time since I'd had them and my male's issues seemed to lessen considerably. I continued to supplement vitamins. A few months ago, I converted them to Harrison's organic high-potency super fine pellets. Per the recommendations of the manufacturer, I stopped supplementing synthetic vitamins and millet altogether, continued the 12-hour full-spectrum lighting and eggshells.

A month ago, my male started to become less active and would spend most of his time sitting on a perch fluffed up. Over a week ago, I woke up and found him deceased on the bottom of the cage. After waffling back and forth with myself over if I wanted to seriously pursue the hobby of breeding these little guys and feeling guilty about my hen now being "widowed" and lonely, I purchased a new young male this weekend (who is in a quarantine cage as a precaution). The breeder advised me that it's possible my deceased male passed away due to malnutrition from the pellet-based diet, and that Goulds should be fed a predominantly millet-based diet. This is contrary to what my avian veterinarian has advised, but I've seen it repeated on various websites and in my little Gouldian care book.

Unfortunately, my hen passed away this morning - same symptoms: fluffed out, lethargic, and on the bottom of her cage, but she was eating up until the end. I'm trying my best to keep my other birds (my new male and my beloved Eclectus hen) contained away from anything that had contact with my deceased finches just in case it's something contagious, but now I'm a bit paranoid: did they die from malnutrition? What should I be feeding my new male and my eventual new hen so that they are happy and healthy, and can perhaps one day breed?

Thanks for reading my wall of text, and your tips are appreciated.

Regards.

[Sally]

So sorry for the loss of your Gouldians. When they passed, were they very thin, where the breastbone feels somewhat sharp and there is little meat on each side of the breastbone? I find it hard to believe that birds can starve to death or die of malnutrition from an all-pellet diet, unless they aren't eating the pellets at all. The pellets are supposed to provide a complete diet, but to me, feeding pellets has taken all the fun/natural out of eating for the bird. It sounds like your male was a twirler, in which case he was doomed to a shorter life.

Personally, I don't feed pellets. I know avian vets push them, but especially with finches, I don't think they are the best diet. Finches are primarily seed-eaters, especially the grass finches from Australia. Seed is natural, and I believe the birds also need the stimulation of searching through a finch mix for their favorites, hulling the seed, just eating like the finches they are. If you still want to feed pellets, I would suggest feeding a good finch seed mix as the primary source of food, with pellets offered as a supplement. Veggies also constitute a good portion of the diet, and egg food can provide the protein birds need.

It is good you have quarantined your new Gouldian, it is important to protect new birds as well as old birds. I would wait a bit to see how this new male is before adding another female.

Welcome to the forum, though it is not under the best of circumstances. There's lots of good reading at www.finchinfo, where you will find many articles on finch nutrition and the Lady Gouldian finch.

[Rainchaser]

Thanks so much for your reply and condolences, Sally.

No, they didn't seem thin, and I know they were actually eating the pellets and seemed to enjoy them. The breast bone on either bird wasn't very pronounced, my male's color was good - hen, not so much. I do agree that foraging would provide more stimulation; I'm just a tiny bit leery of any potential vitamin toxicity, but it may be because I'm used to focusing on my parrot's crazy diet.

I am feeding my new male a combination of the breeder's millet-based mix plus the Harrison's pellets, and I'm trying to get him to like his vegetables as well, as you suggested. Any tips on getting them to try veggies? I haven't had much luck with it in the past. I think a varied diet for all animals (including us!) is probably a good route... I'll try adding in some cooked eggs the next time I make myself some and see if he'll take a liking to them.

And like you said, I didn't expect my poor male to live out a typical lifespan, either. He was such a gorgeous yellow-headed fellow, too, but it was heartbreaking to watch him suffer.

I think I'll wait two weeks before I think about adding a new female - I want to ensure whatever caused the finches to pass isn't contagious, and that my new male doesn't have any issues.

Thank you for the welcome, and I look forward to diving into the resources available here!

[Barbara]

Rainchaser so sorry for the loss of your gouldians,but maybe it wasn'the anything you did sometimes you just never know why we loose or birds but maybe if you get a friend from the same breeder you could put them together because they were from the same breeder and you wouldn't have to feel bad for him all by himself then have to quartine another .My gouldian's really do not eat any fresh vegetables they do get them daily,I do feed them a good finch mix,sprouted seed,boiled eggs/shells chopped/dried egg,millett,cuttlebone,goldenfeast,and all my finches have pellets,I have seen all of them eat it occasionally.I think the most important thing is a good variety.ohhh most of all enjoy them

[Stuart whiting]

Rainchaser

So sorry to here the loss of yer Gouldians,

I'm very much so inclined to agree with Sally on this one,

It appears to be back to the dreaded pellet syndrome

Regardless to what avian vets say about pellets I will simply argue this case until I'm I me box

A few Pellets I suppose wouldn't do any harm to any birds, this I can go along with and accept as it perhaps gives just a little bit of variety,

HOWEVER it's a complete no go to expect any seed eater wheather it's a finch, waxbill, canary, budgie, parakeet or parrot to survive any length of time solely on a pellet diet,

All these birds are listed as predominantly seedeaters,
I've said it time again that seed is so cheap and can be purchased literally anywhere so why does one decide to feed a completely artificial diet , it really doesn't make sence,

If one wants to vary the diet then simply Soak or sprout the seed, this in itself would be far more beneficial to any seed eater,

ITS A NO BRAINIER

I've seen more trouble issues as regards to pellets to last me a life time than any other food item,

In hindsight I really do wish that these were never invented for birds because in reality there a complete waste of time

Apologies for maybe going on a little but it really does make me wild when I hear of cases like this where the possibility of the all pellet diet could largely be to blame .

[Rainchaser]

Barbara,

Thank you for your condolences. Yes, I think I will end up obtaining a new hen eventually from the same breeder; I just need to ensure they're not from the same lines. I'm just going to wait a couple of weeks to make sure my current little guy is feeling okay.

Stuart,

I definitely found your post to be intriguing - and it's perfectly fine to go up on your soap box about these types of things! I agree that it does make more sense to feed an animal the closest possible to its natural diet; it just makes things so confusing when acclaimed vets are telling you that you should be feeding your birds these all-in-one commercial pellets. I'm definitely thinking I will switch to a predominantly seed-based mix with some of the pellets mixed in, with egg and veggies on occasion. I'm most worried about making sure they get all their vitamins and such, but I think some variety will help that.

Thanks again for all of the tips!

[Stuart whiting]

Rainchaser

Hi there,

I didn't mention it earlier but a very warm welcome to the finch forum

I'm so glad that you understood the seriousness of my post, I really didn't want to sound harsh in anyway but at the same time I tried to address the importance of my view

I think what you've just stated is perfectly OK, mainly a quality foreign finch seed diet and just a few pellets thrown into the mix,
I'm now coming to the conclusion that a lot of the seed companies out in the states supply seed with the pellets already mixed in, if you can get any decent seed mixes without the pellets then all the better as this will probably and more likely to be a better quality seed.

Here in England our seed companies don't supply quality seed with added pellets but if one thinks about this it doesn't take a lot of working out why, in simple terms there not worth it

The only pellets that are in the seed bags that I've seen at a few places are the KATEE products which I've never used and never will, this is the sought of seed that we'd get in our pound land shops and certainly isn't really rated here.

A seed diet along with some egg food and green food is all that is really required,

Soaked or sprouted seed can be used at any time and is very highly beneficial to the birds especially when breeding and rearing,

The egg and green food I'd feed 1-2 per week and then increased if rearing young,

I don't believe in feeding loads of green food every day as this can make the birds feacies rather watery,

I'd also feed very fine oyster shell with added grated cuttlefish for calcium,

However I now do not feed any broken egg shell or charcoal as these has proven to be dangerous to birds, I've seen the x-Ray evidence of birds where egg shell has ripped the lining of the birds gut and also charcoal on more than one occasion where it has become blocked in the birds crop and digestive system.

[Rainchaser]

Hi again Stuart,

Wow, thanks again for the additional information. Many things here in the states aren't regulated or tested like they should be, so it's not much of a surprise for me to hear that pellets aren't part of the "norm" for products overseas.

I definitely am leery of KATEE products - super-massed produced items give me the willies.

Getting on the subject of soaked/sprouted seeds - I saw a video posted on the forums about how to sprout seeds in a tea strainer. I'm very interested in trying this method out, but I am having one HECK of a time finding sprouting seeds for sale. Most of what I find both in-store here and online is, as I said above, mass-produced, inferior products that are typically mixed with colorful bits and preservatives. Doctors Foster and Smith have what seems to be a nice finch mix, but again, it has pellets and dehydrated fruit/veggie bits which is not what I'm looking for. I did find whole USDA organic sprouting millet available on wheatgrasskits.com, but they're completely out of stock. Ugh!

Do you know of anywhere online that I can order a decent-quality seed mix for sprouting? My search is definitely turning up empty.

Thanks again!

[paul-inAZ]

I don't know where you are in Pa. but unless you are in the center of Philly there ought to be what I call a 'weed and feed' type store in the area. By that I mean a place that caters to suburban "farmers". They will often carry small bird feed mixes in addition to the chicken, rabbit, horse etc. feed.
I get my seed from a feed store that has premixed feed for finches, canaries, cockatiels and the like. The feed is in bulk bins, probably fresher because they sell a lot and is much cheaper than the cute boxes in pet stores. Finch mix is 95 cents/pound at my supplier and I only get 5-10 lbs at a time. I know a canary breeder who buys canary mix by the 50 lb sack for less/lb.

As to sprouting, I've not done that indoors but once in a while I pitch a handful onto some dirt and water it to harvest the greens with seed spikes. They pick at the greens but love the seeds when they are still on the green side before being fully ripe.

By the way, I also have avoided pellets. A natural seed diet is what these creatures were designed to use.

[Shannylee]

I feed my birds seed, soaked seed, sprouted seed, and fresh veggies. I just bought pellets today but am using them in baked egg bread for the birds with chicks.