Large Enough Cage?

[ApricotMuffins]

Mike_B

Yep, I have water silos for my cages and the birds use them. It takes them a little while to get used to the idea of getting water from the silo/bottle rather than drinking from a dish, but all of mine eventually learned to use them.

[Mike_B]

Here are the three older siblings (born in early November of last year). I believe all three to be male based mainly on the orange patches below their eyes - please let know if you disagree.

[delray]

im not a zebra expert, but i would say the first and last bird are deffietly a male. The second one looks like a female.

[lnlovesorange]

The middle could be a male, what are the parents? His beak looks pretty red, and the cheek patches, but it could be a female with cheek patches depending on what mutation he/she is... what are the parents?

[Mike_B]

So the orange patch (or lack thereof) isn't a surefire indicator of gender? - guess I shouldn't have assumed it would be that easy.

The younger trio of offspring (born in mid-December of 2014) -

[lnlovesorange]

Gray Cheek/Fawn Cheek Zebra finches are the only other zebra that gets cheek patches in the hens (http://www.efinch.com/species/fczeb.htm) beside the Black Cheek, but you can tell the difference by the beak color Red in a mail orange in a female, and the lack of flank markings and no breast bar, does he/she have flank markings? The middle one could be a female like delray said, no breast bar... not the best picture though either, what color is his/her beak red or orange and also, i know it;s proably hard b/c you have so many, but does the middle picture bird sing? That's the only other DEFFINATE indicator, if she doesn't sing, then she's a she, if he does, then he's a he!!!! lol good luck

[Mike_B]

The middle could be a male, what are the parents? His beak looks pretty red, and the cheek patches, but it could be a female with cheek patches depending on what mutation he/she is... what are the parents?

You can find a closeup of the father on page 1 of this thread - here are two group photos including the deceased mother taken shortly after the older trio of siblings first emerged from the nest box (she's the nearly all white bird).

[ApricotMuffins]

Mike_B

the finch parents were both split for penguin, hence why the second and fourth offspring you posted pictures of have no breast bar but orange cheeks (making them male).

The hens are penguin mutations (last two images) as well.

(4 cocks and 2 hens from your clutches)

I didn't see a tear drop on the mother from the photographs, so I'm assuming she was a pure white hen, which means she was doubled up on recessives! White, which is recessive, and penguin, which is also recessive.

I've never really considered pairing a white to a penguin, don't really see any color benefits that could come from those recessives being paired up.

If the mother had a tear mark, then she was CFW and split for penguin.

[Mike_B]

Mike_B<br abp="1000"><br abp="1001">the finch parents were both split for penguin, hence why the second and fourth offspring you posted pictures of have no breast bar but orange cheeks (making them male).<br abp="1002"><br abp="1003">The hens are penguin mutations (last two images) as well.<br abp="1004"><br abp="1005">(4 cocks and 2 hens from your clutches)<br abp="1006"><br abp="1007">I didn't see a tear drop on the mother from the photographs, so I'm assuming she was a pure white hen, which means she was doubled up on recessives! White, which is recessive, and penguin, which is also recessive.<br abp="1008"><br abp="1009">I've never really considered pairing a white to a penguin, don't really see any color benefits that could come from those recessives being paired up.<br abp="1010"><br abp="1011">If the mother had a tear mark, then she was CFW and split for penguin.

You're saying that I guessed right on the genders of all six offspring?

Not being an experienced finch breeder I'm unfamiliar with the terminology - could you please explain it a bit? I purchased the two parent finches last September not thinking they'd breed even once (no less twice).

[Teagarden]

Mike_B - A belated welcome to the forum. How are your Zebras doing? I hope you were able to find some of them a good home.
Mary

[ApricotMuffins]

Mike_B

Yep, all 6 genders were correct.

I threw out a lot of terms, so I'm not sure which ones you are unfamiliar with my apologies.

This link is great for learning definitions and terms for finch genetics

http://www.finchinfo.com/genetics/definitions.php

Anyway, I'll try to be brief as I re-explain my post, which is not my forte.

CFW=Chestnut Flanked White, a sex-linked mutation
If your hen who passed away had a tear mark on her face (either very faint or very dark, depending on the the mutation), then she was this mutation. It means your boys will be split for CFW.

White= recessive mutation, if your hen was pure white she was this

Penguin=recessive mutation, the mutation suppresses the black and gray in a zebra finch in specific parts of their body.

As you probably already know, for a recessive mutation to express itself fully, it needs a copy of the recessive gene from both parents to pass on to the offspring. Since the offspring in the photographs have the penguin mutation, it means both your hen who passed away and the father were split for penguin.

However, since white is recessive (assuming the hen was white and not CFW) and penguin is recessive, it means your hen had to be carrying both recessive mutations. Most likely she was white split to penguin.

When I say that I don't see the point in pairing a white with a penguin, it is because the mutations don't add anything to each other ---

the beauty of a penguin (imo) is the stark contrast of the pattern the mutation creates between orange cheeks, grey back and white chest.

the beauty of a white is, well, the pure whiteness

The white doesn't benefit from a pattern, because it would no longer be white, and penguin wouldn't benefit from white because it destroys the pattern.

This way of thinking only applies if you are breeding for specific mutations. Many people choose to simply let their birds choose their own mates without regard for mutations. There is nothing wrong with this, and in fact, it's not a bad idea. Finches who choose their own mates bond more deeply I've noticed. So if you're keeping finches merely as a hobby, I don't think you need to worry about all this.

Hopefully I explained myself a bit more clearly this time

[Mike_B]

Mike_B - A belated welcome to the forum. How are your Zebras doing? I hope you were able to find some of them a good home.
Mary

There's good news on that front - a mom & pop type parrot shop five miles away is willing to take on some of my birds as a donation (they already have two finches of a different variety in a cage). So the next step is to decide how many and which ones to keep before bringing the others over to the store later this week.