Wild Rescue Finch/Store-Bought Finch

buckie74 · Post by **buckie74** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:43 pm

We are raising a wild rescue finch. We were counseled to buy a society finch to keep the wild finch company. All was going well until we noticed the wild finch acting aggressively toward the society finch. When we noticed feathers in the wild bird's mouth, we separated them. Now the wild finch seems to want to nest but doesn't seem to know how. How can I help the wild finch? Will we ever be able to house them together again?

Ginene · Post by **Ginene** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:22 pm

Do you have plans to return the rescued finch to the wild? What kind of finch is it? Society finches are very peaceful birds, so this might not be an appropriate match. How old is your rescue? What size cage were you housing the pair in? Sorry for all of the questions, but the more information we have, the better we can help.

MiaCarter · Post by **MiaCarter** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:57 pm

I had the same questions as Ginene

Also...
-what is the gender of the wild finch and the gender of the society?
-was the nest present when you tried to house them together?
-what is the wild finch's special need? Is he/she disabled or currently recovering from an injury? Or was this a wild tossling?

I was a rehabber for many years and I kept some of the animals that couldn't be returned to the wild, including some finches and other small birds. So a similar situation to your circumstances.
Whenever possible, I always tried to find a species that was similar for a companion. But I've also had successful "odd couple" pairings with totally different species.

buckie74 · Post by **buckie74** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:11 pm

The first pic is Peep the day my husband rescued him. With the help of a sanctuary near us, we kept Peep and nursed him back to health rather than having him euthanized, as is usually done with this type of bird in our area. We took him to an avian vet who suggested that Peep was injured by passing cars after falling from his nest. We fed him formula through a syringe for 2 months then hand fed him. We tried a soft release but he kept coming back to be hand fed and now we are very attached to him. We bought the society finch 4 months in and bought the bird cage in the second pic. We have had Peep since April, I think. All was well until two weeks ago when Peep became very aggressive. We put the society finch, Peck, in a smaller cage above the large one. This is working well so far. Peep seems to want to nest but doesn't know how? We don't know the sex of the birds. Peep is larger than the store-bought bird. Peep sings random tunes. The other has a definite song that repeats.

buckie74 · Post by **buckie74** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:13 pm

http://s533.photobucket.com/user/p3pp3r ... sort=3&o=0

http://s533.photobucket.com/user/p3pp3r ... sort=3&o=1

buckie74 · Post by **buckie74** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:26 pm

My husband rescued the wild finch from a parking lot in April. An avian vet said that after falling from the nest, the bird was banged up from the air flow of passing cars. We are keeping the wild finch because a soft release did not work well and we are very attached to "Peep" now. We bought the society finch as a friend about 4 months in and all went well until about two weeks ago. Peep seemed to want to nest with the society finch's feathers! Yikes! We have them in separate cages now, one on top of the other. We do not know the sex of the birds. Peep sings a random song. The society finch repeats a pretty tune. The society finch is now smaller than Peep. We would like to try the birds in the same cage again. We hesitate until we understand what is going on. We are finding that we enjoy having pet birds. We are getting all manner of advise, which is why I joined this forum! Please help. Thanks!

Colt · Post by **Colt** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:25 pm

Can you post a current pick of the rescued finch? It would help in identifying the species. I doubt it's trying to nest with the feathers, it's probably just behaving aggressively...

Sheather · Post by **Sheather** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:39 am

Whatever the native finch's species (by the picture, I'm assuming a goldfinch or some sisken, but please try to find out an actual species as 'wild finch' tells me absolutely nothing), if you are American, this wild finch is some member of the Fringillidae family, while the society, from tropical Asia, is an Estrildid finch. In the majority of ways Estrildids and Fringillids are very unlike one another, and indeed are not even related - they are two unrelated seed-eating bird groups both called 'finches'. Many Fringillids are far less social than Estrildids, in addition, and the two groups have very different behaviors and ways to communicate that the other may not understand. A Society is also a very gentle bird and can be killed by a more aggressive bird as it will not defend itself.

It's unlikely your two birds will ever be friends given their distance genetically, especially if the wild bird is now attacking the society. I would recommend getting another society to befriend your current specimen and not putting anyone with the wild finch until you figure out what she is.

cindy · Post by **cindy** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:02 am

Depending on what species (a good picture of him matured is needed)....some are protected under the Migratory Bird Act , most native species are illegal to own. You may be best off finding a reliable rehab organization by going through the Audubon Society, he may do best in a rehab facility with his own kind.

Sorry to be blunt, I know you are attached but wild birds belong with their own kind or in a facility that can rehab the bird to either join it's own kind in the wild or live in a special colony situations at their facilities.

It was kind of you to take the bird to the vets and care for it but wild birds are best turned over to a licensed wildlife rehab center which will work with the birds in order to get them released back into the wild or to live on compound and given what they need according to their species.

I would not release this bird on your own but get it to a rehab center and let them evaluate the bird.

MiaCarter · Post by **MiaCarter** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:25 pm

Okay, tricky situation.

I agree from the photo that it's probably a variety of goldfinch or sisken or something similar. Once your bird is mature, a photo will help us identify the species. It's really a process of looking at the birds in your area and performing a process of elimination (while understanding that males, females and juveniles all look different. And some look different at different points in the season too. So while ensuring Peep is mature, it eliminates juveniles from the equation and we can focus on just mature males and females.)
This is where working with a rehabber will be helpful. They've seen all sorts of local birds in all stages of development.

You must understand that "Finch" is a really broad category. It literally includes hundreds of different species from nearly every continent. Saying you have 2 finches is a bit like saying you have 2 dogs. They both have the same name and the same basic structure, but the social and care needs can vary dramatically. (And genetically speaking, I believe dogs are much, much closer genetically than finches from various parts of the world. So while dogs look more diverse visually, I believe they're much more closely related on a genetic level than finches. I'm sure one of the science folks will chime in if I'm wrong. LOL)
So just keep that point in mind.

Dylan (@Sheather) touched upon the primarily dilemma of trying to blend Peep with a society finch.
They're from two different species families, who've evolved thousands of miles apart. In nature, they would never meet.
They don't speak the same language. I'm not positive on the species of Peep, but it's likely that he's of an entirely different family than the finches you would get in a pet store (which are from Asia, Africa or Australia.)

Birds in the same geographical region have learned to co-exist. Since these two would never see each other in nature, it's a total crapshoot. It's a bit like putting a raccoon and a wallaby in a room and hoping they'll get along. It's total chance.

I was a licensed rehabber for about 10 years in the Boston area. As such, I worked with many people in your exact situation.

I'm not going to tell you to give up your bird that you've raised and clearly care for a lot. I learned long ago that that's just counterproductive and not-so-realistic, especially because many rehabbers are constantly at capacity. There's no real funding for it. Most rehabbers are independent as I was and they pay for everything out of pocket and hope for an occasional grant or donation. The few actual centers that exist are non-profit and most are overwhelmed. I know this from experience. So most rehabbers are willing to work with individuals like you to help you give this bird the best possible life.

Realistically speaking, this bird's chances of being released are remote. As a rehabber, birds who are candidates for release get minimal human contact in favor of letting them interact with other birds. As soon as the bird could eat independently and was fully feathered, it would go outdoors into one of my habitats -- large pens for lack of a better word. One section was in the forest; one was a more field-ey prairie sort of set up. They were all heavily planted with local plants that would be a food source. I'd spend hours each week harvesting plants that would serve as other natural sources of food and re-planting the habitats seasonally to reflect different seasonal food sources for the residents of that habitat. They had a feeder station, as bird feeders do exist in suburbia, but the environment was such that they did a lot of foraging. There were no perches or bird houses, but sticks and branches and little natural alcoves and so forth where they could roost.
It was a habitat designed to get them self-sufficient and ready for nature.

Your bird hasn't encountered any of that and Peep probably hasn't done much foraging either. So release would be impossible currently. He would definitely come right back, as it would be overwhelming and frightening and unfamiliar. If he didn't return straight away, his chances of surviving would be remote. He would likely live off of bird feeders. It's a bit like taking an city kid and putting him in the wilds of Montana and hoping he'll survive. He might. If he's lucky.

Peep would have to live in a transitional habitat as I had, where he could learn to forage and live amongst other local species. But even so, it's a 50-50 chance as to whether he could successfully live in the wild. Some are just too tame. And the older he gets, the more unlikely successful release becomes. This is especially true of a single bird of a social species. Some are socially inept due to lack of social exposure and this makes it impossible for them to live within a flock, which dramatically reduces chances of survival.

So in terms of options for Peep...
- You could surrender him to a rehabber with a transitional habitat. He may be release-able someday. If not, he can live as part of the transitional habitat permanently. Resident birds are an important part of a transitional habitat as they help the habitat more closely mimic nature.

- You could keep him as a pet, with the understanding that he will always have special needs. Social needs will be the most challenging, as all finches are very social by nature.
I would forget about the society finch as a friend. Keep him if you enjoy him (though I'd get him at least 1-2 friends of his own kind because society finches are, as the name implies, extremely social.)
Keeping the society in an adjoining cage will be nice for Peep, as birds simply weren't created to live in a void. They're always around other birds, even if they don't get along in the same cage.

Once you identify Peep's species, you can identify some birds that may be a nice companion. Chances of finding the same species may be slim, but you may be able to find another rescued bird in a similar situation.
This is where a rehabber can help. I'd get calls from people in your situation All. The. Time. Many were looking for help/advice; others were seeking a permanent home for their bird.
While a licensed rehabber cannot give you one of their birds, they can pass along contact info for another private citizen who has a native species that needs a home. Of course, this would require additional commitment. But it's generally worth it when the species are compatible, because they can form a bond and fulfill each other's social needs. And a rehabber can help you determine a few local species and any non-local species that would be compatible with him.
(That dovetails with the third option for Peep -- giving him to another private citizen who is committed, knowledgeable and willing to care for him. Someone with another bird of his species or another compatible species.)

If Peep enjoys interacting with you, I would keep up with this because it's likely that yours will be the only meaningful relationship he ever forms. Finches are extremely social and in many ways, you will become his world; his everything. You have to be prepared for that and all that this entails.

I would *definitely* revamp his cage to be more natural. I would get some live, potted plants (bird safe) from your local environment. I would get some sticks/branches in place of traditional perches.
I would offer a little shallow dish of water for bathing.
You could create foraging bins --- a large, shallow tupperware (the type used to store cupcakes) with some little stones, small sticks and timothy hay or natural grasses (harvested from an area without pesticides/chemicals). Then sprinkle seeds and other foods in there and he can forage for them.

I'd feed a VERY varied diet too, just as he'd have in wild.
Once you know his species, you can harvest local foods that he would eat naturally as a nice supplement.
Here's a good general list to get you started:
http://www.petfinchfacts.com/finch-diet ... for-birds/

If possible, I would allow him time to fly outside of his cage throughout the house (though you would need to ensure it's safe. No other pets. No small areas behind dressers/desks/furniture where he could fall and get stuck.

Keeping a local species is virtually always illegal, but generally, nobody is going to bother you. The key is finding a vet who is willing to work with you in the event he's sick.

It's also absolutely essential to find a local rehabber who can serve as a resource for you -- someone who's familiar with this specific type of bird in a captive environment.
They can also offer additional advice on replicating a natural environment for your bird, diet, etc.

I think once you adorn his cage with foliage and branches, he'll be much happier. Once you know the species, you can revamp his cage to mimic the exact environment where he would live (some live in prairies; others forests. It varies.)
A species ID will also enable you to give him some nesting materials. Some enjoy an open nest, others a hooded nest, others a nest box. Some use bits of paper and tissue and leaves; others feathers and grasses and coconut husk. The wrong type of material and the wrong type of nest could definitely lead to frustration. Living in a really barren cage as he does could do it too. I suspect he probably feels vulnerable, as it's very open (though a nice size.) So adorning the cage with natural items will go a long way toward improving his life.

I'm happy to help with any general rehabber-related advice, and of course there's the forum. But a local rehabber will be key for helping you to keep him happy and healthy.
Best of luck!
I'd love to see a photo of him all grown up! That will be helpful in identifying his/her species.

Sheather · Post by **Sheather** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:57 pm

Only because I was called by MiaCarter I will chime in in response, dogs indeed are closer to one another than finches - by a huge shot! Dogs are all a single subspecies of the gray wolf, Canis lupus familliaris. A society finch and a sisken, however, are of not only different species, but different genuses, and different families! They are like a ferret and a dog, or a cat and a hyena, in distance, which is quite a lot.

MiaCarter · Post by **MiaCarter** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:31 pm

Oh, I also should add.....
You mentioned that you'd tried to release him once.
I don't recommend trying this again. That almost always guarantees death for a bird who's been hand-raised and lived indoors in a cage. The stress, combined with the lack of skills, is generally fatal. You can also decrease chances of survival if you release in the wrong location or at the wrong time of year.

Release must be a gradual process. First they live indoors, then they move to a habitat outdoors so they can become accustomed to living outdoors and learn the skills (social and practical, like foraging) required to survive. Then they're released in a resource-rich area where they would naturally live, ideally with other members of that species present.
Caged birds also need to develop physical stamina to fly properly. Birds who are kept indoors for long periods of time also lose their sense of season, so their bodies need to become acclimated in that regard too (e.g. so they're not forced to undergo a hard, stressful molt in the middle of winter. Similarly, you don't want to release mid-breeding season for some species, when you have lots of other birds nesting and acting in an especially aggressive manner. That's a set-up for failure. You want to set him up for success.)

If you're interested in releasing him, working with a rehabber is key as they'll help guide you through the process and they can consult too. It's possible that this bird may not even fly properly if he was injured by a car as a baby. So all that needs to be considered so you don't release an animal that simply cannot survive.
In short, you don't want to release just for the sake of releasing. The objective of release is to release them so they can live a life free in nature; it's not designed to kill them.

So it must be done properly and with care.

Sheather · Post by **Sheather** » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:24 pm

Since the forum was rolled back several posts, including the one with the picture of peep as an adult, have been lost, but as I said before that happened Peep is a male house sparrow and not a finch at all and that's why he can't get along with a finch as an adult now. House sparrows are large and aggressive and completely unrelated to either family of finch, and unless you can find another sparrow there aren't many options to keep with him.

buckie74 · Post by **buckie74** » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:34 pm

http://s533.photobucket.com/user/p3pp3r ... g.html?o=0

http://s533.photobucket.com/user/p3pp3r ... g.html?o=0

http://s533.photobucket.com/user/p3pp3r ... g.html?o=5

Please help!

buckie74 · Post by **buckie74** » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:58 pm

I am a teacher. My school has a barn for rehabbed animals, mostly birds, bunnies, owls, a swan, and other assorted small animals who have been checked over by a well respected animal sanctuary in our area. The barn was set up by the owners of the sanctuary as their daughter attended our school and helped develop an outstanding wilderness program that is award winning. Despite all these sources, I have received very conflicting advice about the long term care of the bird, Peep. I am shocked to learn he may be a wren rather than a finch. It is too late to return Peep to the wild as he expects others to feed him. When we introduced the society finch, Peck, Peep repeatedly approached Peck with an open mouth that reminded me of Audrey 2 in the film Little House of Horrors yelling, Feed me".....! They do "communicate" as their cages are stacked. Peck seems to worry when Peep gets out of his cage and Peep often strains his neck as he looks up to get a look at Peck. They have begun singing together again when we play music they like. Could they miss each other? Can we try them together again? Where in the world would we get a wren? Thanks, buckie74

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