Hi newbie here!! Need help sexing...

[spook1]

I have always wanted birds and now I have two beautiful Flordia finches ! I love there soft chirping! I have named them Fred and Ethel .... Assuming they are M/f. I'll try and post pics. Thank you for adding me to the forum!!

[MariusStegmann]

They are definitely male and female.

[spook1]

Hi
Thank you for there confirmation on the sexes. These two are a riot! The hen is so active I love watching them. They are about 8/9 months old so they are full of themselves lol. They are better then watching tv...lol. I didn't think to ask I may have just assumed......because they are a mutation can they breed and have young or are they sterile? I am hoping for a total of six pairs. These a pair of Owls and a pair of Gouldins. I have a 36x36x20 and was told that was big enough for 6 pairs. And any advice to a newbie would be so appreciated.

Thanks
A.
Fred and Ethel!

[ApricotMuffins]

spook1

Are both your finches Florida silvers? The picture is a bit gray all over so I can't tell if the male is gray or if it's just the lighting. Either way, a very handsome pair!

As far cage size, here is a handy link!
http://www.finchinfo.com/housing/cage_s ... ulator.php

Going by the cage calculator 36x36x20 is too small for 6 pairs, especially if you intend to breed them.

[spook1]

Hi
The male is white and the female is more gray. I was told they are both Florida Fancies. The female is so active way more then the male. I am kinda hoping they breed. But I thought since they were a mutation they would be sterile. I love them! Thank you for that link. I don't want to over crowd so I will only add one more pair.....I am thinking Owls. I have found a curio that I would like to convert into a aviary. Its 42x20x85 it is a beautiful piece and I have seen such nice avraies made out of theses I want to try plus it would give them so much room. But I am not handy......Ill have to find someone who can help.

[ApricotMuffins]

Spook1
Yes, your zebra finches are Florida Fancies, however your male is a double factor (DF) Florida Fancy and your hen is a single factor (SF) Florida Fancy. This is why she is gray and he is white.

Florida Fancy is a pigment mutation, not a hybrid, so your birds are not sterile--barring some unseen genetic infertility, anyway. The finches are the right age to breed and being zebra finches, they will seize the opportunity to do so if provided with the right environment

Did you ask if they were related? You would probably want to confirm they are not brother/sister before you breed them.

I really don't mean to alarm you, but can I see a close up of your hen's left foot?

[MiaCarter]

Welcome, spook1!
I love your username, by the way. I have a kitty named Spook.

ApricotMuffins - I see the same thing on the left foot.
I second the request for a photo of the left foot on the hen. In fact, if you could send clear photos of both birds' legs/feet, that would be great!

Going by the photo, it looks like she may have tasslefoot, also caused scaly foot/leg mites.
It's nothing too serious, as long as it's treated. It's a condition that's caused by type of mite.
To cure it, you simply apply a medication called S76. You would want to treat both as generally, parasites never impact only one bird.

They are a very lovely pair!
As mentioned above, mutation in this context is just another way of saying variety. So finch mutations are similar to different races of humans.
Therefore, they should be fertile. Though you generally don't want to breed until they're at least 1 year old.
If you breed them too young, you tend to end up with problems due to poorly developed parenting instincts and young hens are slightly more prone to complications like eggbinding.
That's not to say that they can't breed sooner. It's certainly possible and I know Sally had an owl finch pair that was just 3 months old, if I recall? But that was an accidental situation where she was unaware of them breeding until the ship had sailed, so to speak.

[spook1]

Omg!! You guys are good!!! I was going to ask about that in my next questions in the health section of this forum. I suspect mites. Fred seems itchy and honestly I didn't notice Ethel's foot. So please advise on the best thing to do. Is S76 the best course? Should I take them to the vet although that may really stress them. I am experienced in medical treatment of animals (worked with vets ) but large animals. I went home in my lunch to try and get better pics but neither were in the mood for photos at midnight. Lol. They are active and eating and drinking well.
I was told they are 9 months old and from different clutches( if the seller is being honest no reason to think she isn't ). I really hadn't thought about breeding but it's kinda a exciting thought. And I found someone to help me built my huge indoor avairy... Yay!!
And Spook is my horse and he lives up to that name lol!! Thank you guys for replying and the info. And I'm sorry if there are typos I'm at work and on my iPhone.

[MiaCarter]

spook1 -- Spook is a very apt name for a horse! They're so spooky! My kitty is super shy. So we initially named her Shiloh, but it evolved into Spook! LOL

I prefer S76, as it's the most effective in my experience for tasslefoot (plus, it covers lots of other mites, like air sac mites and scaly beak mites.) So a good med to have on-hand.

I'd also invest in a spray called liquidator. It's used for feather mites, red mites and it can kill environmental infestations.
I'd also get a de-wormer. I always de-worm everyone coming in.

For tasslefoot, you need to apply topically to the feet and legs because there's an accumulation of dead tissue that's not going to be perfused by medications in the bloodstream. So you apply topically to the feet and legs until it clears up. Then you can conclude with a treatment in the water to cover any other mites like ASM.

If they're otherwise healthy and happy (good appetite, normal droppings, active and otherwise good) then I wouldn't put them through the stress of a visit to the vet. Not if the mites are the only concern.
These mites are so common in these guys. It's about the same frequency as you'd see tapeworms in dogs and cats - not as common as fleas, but still very commonplace and not all that serious as long as it's treated properly.

I routinely treat all newcomers with a de-wormer, S76 for mites and Ronex (for protozoal bugs, etc.) Just the same way I treat new dogs/cats with a flea med, heartworm med and de-wormer.
It's just good practice, as it rules out infestations from arising again (as long as you quarantine and treat any newcomers.)
Plus, it's less hassle if you've got lots of birds as I do! It's easier to get in the habit of proactively treating newcomers vs. treating the entire flock for an outbreak.

Also, I'm not sure if you got them from a breeder or a pet store or just a random bird lover, but I would notify them about the mite infestation if they have other birds.
I would want to know if it was me. (And with parasites, if one has it, they all do.) I think most people would treat if they're aware of the problem, but not everyone knows the signs and/or notices. You mentioned you didn't notice the hen's foot yourself, so totally possible they just missed it.
I might have missed it myself if I wasn't looking them over with a critical eye (I've got a habit of being extra critical of a person's new birds for this very reason; similar to my habit of looking at babies and juveniles for deformities. I'm well programmed, I guess! LOL)

[spook1]

Hi
Now I am convinced they have mites! Is S76 something I can get at a pet store or do I need to order it. I really want to treat them asap. I have only had them 48 hours and I love them! Also how do I catch them safely. I watched the lady catch the hen and I was a tramtic for me. Lol. She just chased with her had til she could catch her. Lots of cage banging. They are active and eating and drinking well.
Thank you guys so much!!!!

[spook1]

Hi
I posted two short vids on youtube. Search "fred n ethel" and fred n ethel #2

[lnlovesorange]

ApricotMuffins i can't believe you see that in that photo! another reason i LOVE this forum! Welcome spook1! Trust me if you ate thinking about getting serous about finches, you have come to the right place ! Everyone here is very knowledgeable (even more so than ANY pet store) very patient, and just plain awesome. So welcome, your birds are beautiful, good luck with everything, and as I've learned throughout these last 2 months, don't ever be afraid to ask anything and don't ever feel like a painin the butt cuz you are not. I've never felt so welcome, or been made feel so much better so quickly as i do when i come to this amazing forum!
Good luck!

[ApricotMuffins]

spook1

Sorry about the late response, but just in case you haven't looked this up or have asked around elsewhere--

I've never seen s76 or scatt at a chain pet store like Petsmart or Petco, nor have I seen it at local pet shops either, so your best bet is to get it online and have it shipped to you.

As for catching them safely, everyone does it a little different. I usually just use a large hand towel and force them into the corner, or a piece of cardboard that blocks off their escape and reach in and grab them. Some people use hand nets. My husband doesn't joke around, so if I ask him to catch a finch for me, he takes a spray bottle and mists the bird so the feathers are too wet to support flight. They hop along the cage looking really bedraggled, but they are very easy to catch like this. That last one is not advisable if the finch is already stressed or sick. As you might guess, I don't ask my husband to catch finches that often. all part of his master plan, no doubt.

This is the first time I've seen leg mites affect the legs at different rates, but I've only ever seen pictures of scaly leg mites on the internet, so I don't know how common it is.

I watched one of your videos, and they seem active enough so that's a good sign they aren't completely filled with air sac mites, though as MiaCarter pointed out, the s76 can also treat air sac mites, and just as a quarantine procedure you should consider treating them for that as well.

[MiaCarter]

Catching finches is tough.

Some people can do a mid-air ninja catch. I don't do this because A) I'm not fast enough and B) I'm too frightened I'll hurt them.

I don't like chasing them around with a net either, as they freak out and hit the sides of the cage. Plus, you've got to remove cages, nests, etc. And they can get their toes caught in the net (so the net is an especially bad pick if you're catching them for pedicures!)
I use the net as a last resort.


Spraying them with water does help. But again, you don't want to do that if they're unwell.

The easiest and least stressful method in my opinion is to catch them outside of the cage. For me, this just entails catching them during free fly.

But you can also release them into a small, bird-safe room like a bathroom.
BE SURE to put a towel under the door. One member had a situation where a cat snagged a bird from under the door.
Also beware of hot lights. If you can do it without turning on lights with just natural light, I recommend it.

In this situation, you can use a lightweight cotton cloth and just toss it over the bird once she lands on a horizontal surface like the counter or floor. I have a piece of cotton quilting fabric; nothing fancy. It just needs to be light and big enough so they don't hop out from under it. Mine is probably a little bigger than 2-foot square?
Then, you just pick them up and do what you need to do and return them into the cage.
There's less chasing and less chance of injury with this approach. If you use a net, you can maneuver it better out in the open, so there's less risk of beaning a bird with the net frame or handle. (I never use swift movements for this reason.)
Also, if you have more than 1 bird flying free, watch your foot movements in case someone lands on the floor. ALWAYS shuffle your feet. I roll up my rug because it has a pattern and the birds blend in; easier to see them on plain tile.

Most caged birds aren't strong flyers, so a couple minutes of flying around the bathroom and they're tired. That makes them extra easy to catch.

[lnlovesorange]

MiaCarter ... or anyone actually. I don't have to catch my birds... (knock on wood I never will) But once you catch them, and are holding them do they squirm like other pets (ie cats that don't want to be held, or babies!!!) or do they stay pretty calm in your hand? Just wondering.