European Goldfinch questions
-
mollycharlie
- Pip
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:10 pm
- Location: ENGLAND LEICESTER
Re: European Goldfinch questions
hi this is my first time could anyone help me. I have just got two goldfinches and they are in a large cage.could anyone tell me the best way to set them up for breeding this year thanks.
-
mollycharlie
- Pip
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:10 pm
- Location: ENGLAND LEICESTER
Re: European Goldfinch questions
hi can any body tell me how to read my replies thanks
-
mollycharlie
- Pip
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:10 pm
- Location: ENGLAND LEICESTER
Re: European Goldfinch questions
mollycharlie wrote: hi can any body tell me how to read my replies thanks
-
GouldianGuy
- Wonder Wooer
- Posts: 311
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:44 pm
- Location: Newfoundland
Re: European Goldfinch questions
there are no replies.. yet
-
jonvill
- Amateur Architect
- Posts: 459
- Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:32 pm
- Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: European Goldfinch questions
Here's an article that might help:
Keeping and Breeding European and Siberian Goldfinches
Introduction:
The European and Siberian Goldfinches (EGFs and SGFs) are one of the most misunderstood birds in the U.S. Very few people keep them and/or understand their nutritional and environmental requirements. They are beautiful birds and excellent songsters. I am only a novice at keeping and breeding these birds. Most of the information below based on extensive reading, assistance from other more experienced bird keepers, and my own experience. Although I kept EGFs as I was growing up, this is only my second year breeding them.
In the Middle East, Europe, and parts of Africa, the GFs are the main pet bird singer. Many people keep them, but never attempt to breed them. In those countries, more people are interested in cross breeding them to a canary hen than to their own kind. The reason is simple; there has not been a reason to breed GFs in captivity as there are plenty of them all around at very cheap prices. In 1934, the Buckmaster Bill was passed in England. Among other things, the bill prohibited the catching of these birds or the taking of the eggs from the nest during the breeding season. So for the first time, breeding of these birds started in England, but until now, in many countries in the World, they are still caught and exported in the tens of thousands.
Acquiring Goldfinches:
It is important to know that most GFs for sale in the U.S. are wild caught and imported from other parts of the world. In addition, most of these imported birds have gone through months of horrible conditions. They are being caught, medicated, put in crowded and unhealthy conditions, transported in these conditions to the U.S., quarantined, medicated again, and then being sold to the pet or bird shop.
I always recommend to my friend to purchase several pairs and hopefully they will be bale to end up with a couple of nice pairs. I have been lucky as I bought my birds from BirdCrazy in San Diego. They have a 7-day health guarantee and a 6-month trade in policy. So if the bird is sick, I returned it and exchanged it for another one. Or if I did not like the bird within the first few months later, I traded it for another one. A lot of these birds are beat up and exhausted by the time they come to us, bird lovers. I n addition, we do not know their age and breeding status.
If somebody claims that they have captive bred birds, one must make sure they are closed banded with the right size of a band. I use size E band for my EGFs, the brittanica race and size G bands for my SGFs. It is always better to acquire captive bred birds as one would be able to tell their age and also captive bred are more adaptable to captivity conditions, which results most of the time in a better singing bird and better breeding possibilities.
Nutrition and Environemnt:
Nutrition is a very important, if not the most important element in the well beings of GFs. They require fatty seeds in higher quantities than other finches and seem to never get too fat on them. Throughout the year, in addition to a good canary seed mix, offer the GF some hemp, hulled sunflower seeds, safflower seeds, and/or niger. They need fatty seeds or otherwise they will not survive for long. I have seen some bird stores that offer them finch seed alone!
They need fresh water every day with multi vitamins and probiotics added, a few time a week. I add probiotics almost every day. The love leafy greens such as kale and dandelions and should be offered these a few times a week. I will talk about the nutrition requirements during the breeding and molting seasons in their respective sections.
Regarding their environment, one can keep a single male in a box canary type cage if the purpose is just to keep one bird in the cage for singing only; not for breeding. However, it is preferable to keep wild caught GFs in bigger cages. The cage should be hung as high as possible in a relatively quiet room. They feel more secure this way, especially wild caught birds. One can also use solid sides and back for the GF’s cage to offer it more privacy and security.
What I meant by a relatively quiet room is that if you place the cage on the floor in a room hustling with kids or visitors every day, the GF will not survive for long. S/he will catch a disease from being over stressed and will die. A home office about 4’ or 5’ high is ideal. For captive bred, you can flex these stringent requirements a bit.
Breeding:
Patience and persistence on the part of the hobbyist are necessary to successfully breed EGFs and SGFs. You can breed these birds in an outdoor aviary, indoor aviary, or a flight cage. Outdoor aviary breeding is the best way to breed these beautiful birds. I have tried an outdoor aviary this year and thankfully it has been a success for me. The second best alternative is an indoor aviary or a large indoor flight cage. Maybe indoor aviaries or flights are the best alternative for people who have nasty weathers and mosquitoes that carry diseases. At least, one can control the indoor environment by keeping cool and free of nasty flies and predators.
The third method flight cages and is my widely used method. I breed my birds in an outdoor aviary measuring 4’X4’X6’ high and also in double breeder flight cages measuring 30”X18”X18”. I heard of people breeding them in flight cages as small as 24”X15”X15”. The bigger the flight cage is the better. Wild caught GFs will not breed in a small box canary-type cage.
Flight Cage breeding:
1. Pick a nice size, as recommended above, double breeder flight cage. The wire divider is a must and will explain why later.
2. Place the cage as high a possible in the room without constantly moving or changing the cage or location. They like stability.
3. They need peace and quiet in the room. A home office would be ideal. They will not breed in a bedroom or a family room with people moving in and out constantly. I have my birds in a bird room specifically fro them. I used to have them in my home office and they did fine there.
4. Pick strong and young birds that do not have problems. If they are wild caught, one must wait 1-2 years before attempting to breed, especially for the female. The female needs privacy and cover when breeding and incubating eggs.
5. If they are captive bred, one does not need to wait. It will take them only a few months to get used to you and your place and get down to the business of breeding.
6. Nutrition prior and during the breeding season: They will require the following:
a. Dry seeds as described under the nutrition section.
b. Soaked/sprouted seeds and eggfood on a daily basis, one tsp per bird.
c. Leafy greens everyday.
d. Weeds such as dandelions and sow thistle. Give them the whole plant, leaves, flowers buds, and roots. They love to work the flower buds for the seeds. That is why they have long pointy beaks.
e. Fresh water every day with multi vitamins and probiotics.
f. Cuttlebone.
g. I do not use grit, oyster shell, or charcoal. Others experienced breeders that I know give their birds oyster shell and charcoal.
h. Apples, carrots, and broccoli are good. Do not over feed your birds. Remember they are tiny creatures and will only need very little to eat as long as it is the right food.
i. Breeding food should be offered gradually, maybe once a week in February, until it is offered every day sometime in March.
7. Separate the male from the female with the wire divider in the double breeder cage.
8. They require 14-16 hours of daylight or artificial lighting. Start increasing your lighting gradually in late February or early March. They come into condition in April or May. They are late breeders.
9. Offer an open cup like nest (canary type) to the female. Hang it in one of the corners on the highest point.
10. Nesting Material: I have noticed that GFs prefer burlap to anything else. One should also offer them cotton like material. Avid strings no matter what other may tell you. I got burnt this way and lost a female this way and also almost lost her babies. Her feet got tangled with the string materials.
11. Signs of Coming into Breeding Condition: The male will be singing to the female and displaying to her. He will sing and sway his tail back and forth with the wings drooping on the sides. The female will also be swaying her tail back and forth. Both of their beaks will turn into pinkish white with the black color almost gone. Some males will feed the female through the wire. Many GF males will not feed their mate or babies in a cage.
12. When all the above signs are noticed and the female has built her nest, remove the wire divider between the two. Sometimes one will see the mating happen almost immediately. Just like magic!
13. Hopefully, eggs will start being laid in the nest. Every morning, take the egg out and replace it with a plastic egg. The hen will lay 3-5 eggs. When the 4th egg is laid, give her the real eggs and let her sit on them. Make sure at that time that you put the wire divider between the male and female. GF males are known to break or eat the eggs in cages. About 13-14 day later, the eggs will hatch. Continue doing what you have been doing and let the female raise her babies.
14. Make sure you band the babies between 6-9 days old depending on how fast they are growing.
15. At about 10 days of hatching, one can let the male in by removing the wire divider. Some will feed their babies.
16. The nestlings will fledge at about 13-15 days of age. They will become self sufficient at approximately 28 days. Do not rush it so you won’t lose any babies this way.
17. Offer the hen a nest on the other side of the cage when the babies are about 3 weeks old. She will likely go to nest again. Do not be greedy, two clutches a year are enough.
Keeping and Breeding European and Siberian Goldfinches
Introduction:
The European and Siberian Goldfinches (EGFs and SGFs) are one of the most misunderstood birds in the U.S. Very few people keep them and/or understand their nutritional and environmental requirements. They are beautiful birds and excellent songsters. I am only a novice at keeping and breeding these birds. Most of the information below based on extensive reading, assistance from other more experienced bird keepers, and my own experience. Although I kept EGFs as I was growing up, this is only my second year breeding them.
In the Middle East, Europe, and parts of Africa, the GFs are the main pet bird singer. Many people keep them, but never attempt to breed them. In those countries, more people are interested in cross breeding them to a canary hen than to their own kind. The reason is simple; there has not been a reason to breed GFs in captivity as there are plenty of them all around at very cheap prices. In 1934, the Buckmaster Bill was passed in England. Among other things, the bill prohibited the catching of these birds or the taking of the eggs from the nest during the breeding season. So for the first time, breeding of these birds started in England, but until now, in many countries in the World, they are still caught and exported in the tens of thousands.
Acquiring Goldfinches:
It is important to know that most GFs for sale in the U.S. are wild caught and imported from other parts of the world. In addition, most of these imported birds have gone through months of horrible conditions. They are being caught, medicated, put in crowded and unhealthy conditions, transported in these conditions to the U.S., quarantined, medicated again, and then being sold to the pet or bird shop.
I always recommend to my friend to purchase several pairs and hopefully they will be bale to end up with a couple of nice pairs. I have been lucky as I bought my birds from BirdCrazy in San Diego. They have a 7-day health guarantee and a 6-month trade in policy. So if the bird is sick, I returned it and exchanged it for another one. Or if I did not like the bird within the first few months later, I traded it for another one. A lot of these birds are beat up and exhausted by the time they come to us, bird lovers. I n addition, we do not know their age and breeding status.
If somebody claims that they have captive bred birds, one must make sure they are closed banded with the right size of a band. I use size E band for my EGFs, the brittanica race and size G bands for my SGFs. It is always better to acquire captive bred birds as one would be able to tell their age and also captive bred are more adaptable to captivity conditions, which results most of the time in a better singing bird and better breeding possibilities.
Nutrition and Environemnt:
Nutrition is a very important, if not the most important element in the well beings of GFs. They require fatty seeds in higher quantities than other finches and seem to never get too fat on them. Throughout the year, in addition to a good canary seed mix, offer the GF some hemp, hulled sunflower seeds, safflower seeds, and/or niger. They need fatty seeds or otherwise they will not survive for long. I have seen some bird stores that offer them finch seed alone!
They need fresh water every day with multi vitamins and probiotics added, a few time a week. I add probiotics almost every day. The love leafy greens such as kale and dandelions and should be offered these a few times a week. I will talk about the nutrition requirements during the breeding and molting seasons in their respective sections.
Regarding their environment, one can keep a single male in a box canary type cage if the purpose is just to keep one bird in the cage for singing only; not for breeding. However, it is preferable to keep wild caught GFs in bigger cages. The cage should be hung as high as possible in a relatively quiet room. They feel more secure this way, especially wild caught birds. One can also use solid sides and back for the GF’s cage to offer it more privacy and security.
What I meant by a relatively quiet room is that if you place the cage on the floor in a room hustling with kids or visitors every day, the GF will not survive for long. S/he will catch a disease from being over stressed and will die. A home office about 4’ or 5’ high is ideal. For captive bred, you can flex these stringent requirements a bit.
Breeding:
Patience and persistence on the part of the hobbyist are necessary to successfully breed EGFs and SGFs. You can breed these birds in an outdoor aviary, indoor aviary, or a flight cage. Outdoor aviary breeding is the best way to breed these beautiful birds. I have tried an outdoor aviary this year and thankfully it has been a success for me. The second best alternative is an indoor aviary or a large indoor flight cage. Maybe indoor aviaries or flights are the best alternative for people who have nasty weathers and mosquitoes that carry diseases. At least, one can control the indoor environment by keeping cool and free of nasty flies and predators.
The third method flight cages and is my widely used method. I breed my birds in an outdoor aviary measuring 4’X4’X6’ high and also in double breeder flight cages measuring 30”X18”X18”. I heard of people breeding them in flight cages as small as 24”X15”X15”. The bigger the flight cage is the better. Wild caught GFs will not breed in a small box canary-type cage.
Flight Cage breeding:
1. Pick a nice size, as recommended above, double breeder flight cage. The wire divider is a must and will explain why later.
2. Place the cage as high a possible in the room without constantly moving or changing the cage or location. They like stability.
3. They need peace and quiet in the room. A home office would be ideal. They will not breed in a bedroom or a family room with people moving in and out constantly. I have my birds in a bird room specifically fro them. I used to have them in my home office and they did fine there.
4. Pick strong and young birds that do not have problems. If they are wild caught, one must wait 1-2 years before attempting to breed, especially for the female. The female needs privacy and cover when breeding and incubating eggs.
5. If they are captive bred, one does not need to wait. It will take them only a few months to get used to you and your place and get down to the business of breeding.
6. Nutrition prior and during the breeding season: They will require the following:
a. Dry seeds as described under the nutrition section.
b. Soaked/sprouted seeds and eggfood on a daily basis, one tsp per bird.
c. Leafy greens everyday.
d. Weeds such as dandelions and sow thistle. Give them the whole plant, leaves, flowers buds, and roots. They love to work the flower buds for the seeds. That is why they have long pointy beaks.
e. Fresh water every day with multi vitamins and probiotics.
f. Cuttlebone.
g. I do not use grit, oyster shell, or charcoal. Others experienced breeders that I know give their birds oyster shell and charcoal.
h. Apples, carrots, and broccoli are good. Do not over feed your birds. Remember they are tiny creatures and will only need very little to eat as long as it is the right food.
i. Breeding food should be offered gradually, maybe once a week in February, until it is offered every day sometime in March.
7. Separate the male from the female with the wire divider in the double breeder cage.
8. They require 14-16 hours of daylight or artificial lighting. Start increasing your lighting gradually in late February or early March. They come into condition in April or May. They are late breeders.
9. Offer an open cup like nest (canary type) to the female. Hang it in one of the corners on the highest point.
10. Nesting Material: I have noticed that GFs prefer burlap to anything else. One should also offer them cotton like material. Avid strings no matter what other may tell you. I got burnt this way and lost a female this way and also almost lost her babies. Her feet got tangled with the string materials.
11. Signs of Coming into Breeding Condition: The male will be singing to the female and displaying to her. He will sing and sway his tail back and forth with the wings drooping on the sides. The female will also be swaying her tail back and forth. Both of their beaks will turn into pinkish white with the black color almost gone. Some males will feed the female through the wire. Many GF males will not feed their mate or babies in a cage.
12. When all the above signs are noticed and the female has built her nest, remove the wire divider between the two. Sometimes one will see the mating happen almost immediately. Just like magic!
13. Hopefully, eggs will start being laid in the nest. Every morning, take the egg out and replace it with a plastic egg. The hen will lay 3-5 eggs. When the 4th egg is laid, give her the real eggs and let her sit on them. Make sure at that time that you put the wire divider between the male and female. GF males are known to break or eat the eggs in cages. About 13-14 day later, the eggs will hatch. Continue doing what you have been doing and let the female raise her babies.
14. Make sure you band the babies between 6-9 days old depending on how fast they are growing.
15. At about 10 days of hatching, one can let the male in by removing the wire divider. Some will feed their babies.
16. The nestlings will fledge at about 13-15 days of age. They will become self sufficient at approximately 28 days. Do not rush it so you won’t lose any babies this way.
17. Offer the hen a nest on the other side of the cage when the babies are about 3 weeks old. She will likely go to nest again. Do not be greedy, two clutches a year are enough.
-
GouldianGuy
- Wonder Wooer
- Posts: 311
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:44 pm
- Location: Newfoundland
Re: European Goldfinch questions
Awesome article! did you write it? or what is the source?
-
jonvill
- Amateur Architect
- Posts: 459
- Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:32 pm
- Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: European Goldfinch questions
I am not the author but it's such an amazing article I saved it when I first read it and have passed it on to many EGF newbies.
-
Sally
- Mod Extraordinaire
- Posts: 17929
- Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:55 pm
- Location: DFW, Texas
Re: European Goldfinch questions
mollycharlie
Sorry you haven't gotten much response to your questions. We don't have too many members who work with European Goldfinches. Welcome to the forum! If you put your general location in your profile, it makes it easier for members to guide you to where to get supplies, etc.
Sorry you haven't gotten much response to your questions. We don't have too many members who work with European Goldfinches. Welcome to the forum! If you put your general location in your profile, it makes it easier for members to guide you to where to get supplies, etc.
-
mollycharlie
- Pip
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:10 pm
- Location: ENGLAND LEICESTER
Re: European Goldfinch questions
thanks sally
-
hatem
- Pip
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:07 pm
Re: European Goldfinch questions
Hi all members.
my my name is Hatem. I'm intersting to european goldfinch. i live in Montreal Quebec Canada. i want your help to find goldfinch breeders in Canada if you know!
thks
my my name is Hatem. I'm intersting to european goldfinch. i live in Montreal Quebec Canada. i want your help to find goldfinch breeders in Canada if you know!
thks
-
isobea
- Incubating
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:45 pm
- Location: San Diego North County
Re: European Goldfinch questions
Here is a link to a beautiful video for all you goldfinch lovers.
One day I will have some again.
Iso
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvYbIUSrRII
One day I will have some again.
Iso
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvYbIUSrRII
-
andiok
- Perfect Partner
- Posts: 378
- Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:45 am
- Location: Canada, Sk
-
isobea
- Incubating
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:45 pm
- Location: San Diego North County
Re: European Goldfinch questions
andiok - Beautiful photography! Thank you so much for posting this link.
Iso
Iso
-
mollycharlie
- Pip
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:10 pm
- Location: ENGLAND LEICESTER
Re: European Goldfinch questions
hi I am new to keeping goldfinches I have just put rings on four babies and one of them came off in the nest by the time I noticed the baby was to big to put the ring on can any one tell me what to do thanks
-
Sally
- Mod Extraordinaire
- Posts: 17929
- Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:55 pm
- Location: DFW, Texas
Re: European Goldfinch questions
mollycharlie Are you using closed bands? With NFSS bands, you normally band in the nest while the babies (and their legs/ankles) are still quite small. If this baby is now too big for the usual band, you are allowed to band with the next size up when the baby fledges. The next size up will go over the ankle at that age, and then the baby continues to grow to the point that the band stays on. When banding at fledge with the next size up, you still often have to use a little grease like neosporin or petroleum jelly to get the band over the ankle. I have waxbills, and almost always band at fledge, because waxbills are so likely to abandon if I try to band earlier.