First do no harm...question regarding vet care of finches

[marymac]

I'm new to birds.... I'm not new to veterinarians. I LOVE my vet! I've been a practice manager for and equine surgeon. Having stated this, I will also say that I know there are good and not so good vets...as is true in people in general. So I am always cautious with my dogs and their care. I try to be as educated as possible with them. My dogs are Great Danes, and the care they require is sometimes very different from, say, a chihuahua

Anyway, I know that an Avian Vet can be very knowledgeable and comfortable in the care of larger birds, and not so open to the fragile care of finches. And visa versa....I had to take my young female owl finch in after she had laid about 8 eggs. She was not looking "right" and seemed to be breathing heavy. As soon as I put her in my hospital cage, I could hear she was having some respiratory issues. Long story short... she passed. The vet strongly suggested I bring the remaining flock in for antibiotics and ASM treatments. I did. But he overdosed my birds by 10 times the amount of Ivermectin than they needed. I called and his receptionist said that he apologized and said that he just left out a 0. But he said that they could be given 100 times more than that and be ok.

When I got home and put them back in their cage they were a MESS. My male owl just lopped over on his side.....the others were frantically picking at their feathers. It took them days, but they have all survived this!

BUT my question is this: The vets office called and strongly suggested I bring them all back in for their last round of antibiotics. I felt pretty guilty, but said no. I felt like I did them more harm than good by treating them all for something they were not showing symptoms of in the first place. It seems like with these fragile birds I should probably learn how to do most of my vetting of them myself. Do most of you do this???? They said that I couldn't properly administer antibiotics to finches myself. Is this true?

I know this was a long post to get to these two questions..... but I wanted you to know why I was at this point

MaryMac

[w.l.]

A good avian vet could be very useful but I'd never, ever take birds again to the place you described!

[marymac]

w.l. I agree.... but they were very highly recommend and have a great reputation. Sometimes in large clinics you have to find the right vet for your needs. It's not an easy task, and not one I like to learn from at the expense of my birds.... BUT mistakes happen, to the best of us, and we are all human.

[w.l.]

Overdosing 10 times is a huge mistake!
And Ivermectin is a very common drug whose dosage any vet should know by heart.
That's my take on it, anyway.

[Dave]

It takes courage for a vet to be a bird specialist. That's because by the time a bird looks sick it is at death's door. The chances of a patient dying are pretty high for a bird vet. And there are very few or no clinical trials for pet birds (as opposed to dogs or horses).

Some years back I knew a man that raised and kept hundreds of pigeons, and he'd done so for several decades. Vets used to call him for advice. They recognized that this pigeon keeper had practical experience, and they relied on his judgement rather than their own.

[wildbird]

The birds that he treated weren't even sick and he almost killed them. Good thing their owner had the good sense not to take them back or he may have succeeded.

[lovezebs]

marymac

Personally I agree with w.I. A mistake like that, might very well have caused the death of all of your birds.

I would not go back to this particular Vet. Is there another Vet at this Avian clinic that you could see instead?

Regarding your question about whether we tend to treat our own birds in case of sickness.
The answer in my case is yes, and I think many on this Forum would agree that they do the same . There are many members here, who have no access to an avian Vet, and most regular Vets, have no real knowledge of of Finches or how to treat them.

So we learn through reading, through research, and from one another as best as we can, and do the best that we can for our birds.

My experience has been, that In most cases an ounce of prevention, is worth a pound of cure.

With good care, and the best diet possible, many health issues can be avoided.

[Sally]

marymac Even though we recommend that members take sick birds to an avian vet, it is not always possible. For those who live in small towns, they may only have access to a dog and cat vet. It is also a case of economics for some who find it difficult to face having a vet bill of $100 or more for a $10 Zebra finch.

Many rely on articles they find online, which may work for a few of the more common ailments. However, with antibiotics, it is difficult to know what antibiotic to use without some diagnostic tests, and the wrong antibiotic can make a problem worse.

In the case of your birds, I would have a problem using a vet again after that kind of mistake, which could have killed all your birds.

[marymac]

Thanks all for your input!

I'm finding so much info on this forum alone, it could take me months to get through it all!

@Sally both visits to two different vets at this clinic, neither did any thing other than observe and listen to my birds. Should their have been any other type of diagnostic work done to help them decide which antibiotic they gave? I was told Doxy was the best bet. So they were given injections. I asked if there was a way that I could give my birds this antibiotic myself and save them the stress of being caught, and driven for 30 minutes back to them, he said no. I see that I can buy this online, but not sure how to dose them if need be. As it is, they only had the first injection that was good for 7 days.

[Sojourner]

There's a wide range of safety for the dosage of ivermectin in most (but not all) DOGS.

NOT BIRDS!

That guy doesn't have a clue. You're right to never take a bird there again. In fact I wouldn't take ANY animal there ever again.

[Zebrafincher]

Try and find a bird specialist. We have 3 around the city we live in, and the place I go to is great. Regular vets might be OK, but they generally don;t have the specialist knowledge for birds, small animals or reptiles/fish.

Kind Regards

Zebrafincher

[marymac]

Zebrafincher

The main vet is a board certified Avian veterinarian, and the other specializes in finches. It's an Exotic Animal Clinic

[Zebrafincher]

Hmmm... not sure it sounds like they know all about EXACTLY what the featheries (finches) are about. Guess even experts can be wrong...

Maybe try someone else.

Sorry I don;'t have much information to give!

Kind Regards

Zebrafincher

[wildbird]

Not all avian vets are good. If there are any bird breeders in your area (finches), ask them for a recommendation for a vet. When I took my Java to several avian vets. they told me that he was too small to do blood tests to find out what was wrong. He was given antibiotics by syringe, not injection. Bayatril seemed to be the most common one used. This bird was larger than a canary, but there were not any tests done other than gram stain and check for parasites. I was to one place, avian board certified vet, said worked with a lot of small birds. She didn't even know how to take the bird out of my hand. Seemed to be very uncomfortable around birds. I never went back. If you don't feel right about what they're doing, leave.

[Sojourner]

PLEASE tell me that only the antibiotic was injected - not the ivermectin!!!!

Ivermectin is suspended in propylene glycol, and propylene glycol is KNOWN TO CAUSE LESIONS in birds when injected.

Even the antibiotic should not have been injected. But if Ivomec, or any other brand of ivermectin using propylene glycol as the carrier agent (and that's all of the livestock injectables as far as I know) - that's like injecting poison for birds.