Fighting- How long is too long?

[MisterGribs]

I recently introduced a second pair of zeebs into my 5x4x3 foot cage. There are ample seed and treat bowls, three sources of water, and two different baths, two different nesting sites. At my wife Heta's behest, I took great care to arrange everything as symmetrically as possible. The cage is left open and supervised in a bird safe room, though the finches rarely venture out of it.

The new zeebs were welcomed ecstatically, with much joyous beeping and singing, and there was lots of preening going on all around. Then the next day, the chasing and hissing began. From the NEW male. As a result, the old couple seem to just sulk inside the coconut, only coming out to eat and drink, then going right back in. I checked and they aren't sitting on any eggs; the original pair, bizarrely, has never expressed any desire to breed together despite building a nest and lots of singing from the male. The nest in the coconut is used for sleeping, and those two birds have never mated to my knowledge.

I've read on your wonderful forum as well as elsewhere that squabbling, arguing and chasing is normal, especially for male zebras. But for how long is this adjustment period before they get to know each other?? When should I be worried, and buy another cage?

[Barbara]

MisterGribs I don't have any zebras but my guess is the nest,some finches get very territorial when they get in breeding mode (I think the males always want to breed in a finch) and I think your male wants to be the boss of everything you could separate pairs,but I would start by taking both nest out and adding some fake greenery for a few hiding spots unless you already have some.Your cage to me should house two pairs but zebras can be unpredictable at times good luck with them.If you want to breed then I would separate.

[lovezebs]

MisterGribs

Might I ask what size your cage is?

What you're describing, is your new male, attempting to assert himself, and prove that he is the TOP man (well top bird anyway). It is partially territorial, as in: I'M HERE, THIS IS MY TERRITORY NOW!!!

If your other male doesn't challange him, things might smooth over. However, if your older male does challange, you may end up with some battles. Usually once they reach a gentelmanly agreement as to who is the boss, things tend to settle down (or not ). With Zebras, you never know.

Now to figure out how to try and resolve their silly issues.
Adding all sorts of fake greens ($ store variety vines, etc. are fine) seem to cut back on the squabbling somewhat. Hang them inside the cage, creating little private nooks and corners, where they can all get away from one another if they wish to do so.

Adding a foraging box, may keep everyone busy for a while too, keeping their minds off fighting.

Another thing that amazingly enough works sometimes, is adding another two Zebras to the group. That way, everyone has something else to think about .

You have to watch carefully, if this new male is not driving your older birds from the food and water dishes. This can happen, and it can become a problem, where your older birds will become stressed to a point where they may become sick and half starved.

Good luck.

[MisterGribs]

MisterGribs I don't have any zebras but my guess is the nest,some finches get very territorial when they get in breeding mode (I think the males always want to breed in a finch) and I think your male wants to be the boss of everything you could separate pairs,but I would start by taking both nest out and adding some fake greenery for a few hiding spots unless you already have some.Your cage to me should house two pairs but zebras can be unpredictable at times good luck with them.If you want to breed then I would separate.

I definitely plan to remove the nests! However, I have some little eggs on the way currently so I've opted to go with separation. For now, every morning, we block up the coconut nest to forbid the older pair from sulking. We then remove the new male and lock him out of the cage.
He hangs out on the flight play gym thing we have set up on top of the cage. He has millet and water and a bath and everything he needs, and he is physically unable to bomb Scrambles and Weeb.

I plan to keep this up until the new female, Vilu, begins incubating, and then having the other couple outside the cage until the chicks are removed.

[MisterGribs]

MisterGribs

Might I ask what size your cage is?

What you're describing, is your new male, attempting to assert himself, and prove that he is the TOP man (well top bird anyway). It is partially territorial, as in: I'M HERE, THIS IS MY TERRITORY NOW!!!

If your other male doesn't challange him, things might smooth over. However, if your older male does challange, you may end up with some battles. Usually once they reach a gentelmanly agreement as to who is the boss, things tend to settle down (or not ). With Zebras, you never know.

Now to figure out how to try and resolve their silly issues.
Adding all sorts of fake greens ($ store variety vines, etc. are fine) seem to cut back on the squabbling somewhat. Hang them inside the cage, creating little private nooks and corners, where they can all get away from one another if they wish to do so.

Adding a foraging box, may keep everyone busy for a while too, keeping their minds off fighting.

Another thing that amazingly enough works sometimes, is adding another two Zebras to the group. That way, everyone has something else to think about .

You have to watch carefully, if this new male is not driving your older birds from the food and water dishes. This can happen, and it can become a problem, where your older birds will become stressed to a point where they may become sick and half starved.

Good luck.

Thank you so much for answering my question once again! It's a godsend to have a zeeb guru to implore. One thing that I feel I should mention (It's hard to believe, I know!) our older pair have absolutely no desire to breed. I have no idea why! The male sings and courts the female, but that's as far as it goes. He never attempts to mount her, and she never asks.

My cage is 5 feet across from the front, 3 feet across from the side, and 4.5 feet high. https://www.instagram.com/p/BORa8XbhWR5/
It has been since re-arranged to be symmetrical with seed and water containers added, (The insulation foil stuff on the side of the cage has been removed, since conditions are warmer.) but it's essentially very similar to what's shown. The new pair has taken up residence in the club house in the upper right corner. The door is left in drawbridge style any time we are in the room, it's left open. Millet is provided in three different areas of the cage. So far, the thing they fight over the most is the foraging box.

I'm more concerned with my older zeebs sulking and becoming shut-ins in their coconut than the ribald tomfoolery; Hiro (the new male) seldom has a chance to chase and divebomb, as Scrambles and Weeb are nowhere to be found! As far as food and water guarding, I don't think that's too much of a problem. He essentially bombs them regardless of where they are in the cage!

For now, we have set up the top of the cage and the nearby bookshelf top as a free flight gym. I don't know why our birds hate coming out of the cage, they rarely do it.. But he has food and a bath, and the room is nice and safe for him. When Vilu starts to incubate, I'll move Scrambles and Weeb (And their precious coconut) out of the cage full time until the chicks fledge and can be removed. At that point, all nests will be taken away and grown birds returned to the cage never to nest again.

I've heard the suggestion about having a third pair! Any idea why this works?? Perhaps we will keep hold of some of the fledgelings in order to create this thirdbird environment.

[lovezebs]

MisterGribs

Thanks for the title, but I'm far from being a guru of anything really, lol.

Very nice sized cage.
There is definitely more than enough room, so it's not a case of overcrowding.

Regarding Scrambles and Weebs, are you one hundred percent sure that you have a true pair?

As to them sulking in their coconut...
Just imagine a scenerio, where you and the Mrs suddenly had a young couple moving into your house with you, and the young upstart would chase you around smacking you up the side of the head every time he laid eyes on you.

You might want to hide in the coconut as well .

As to why adding a third couple works...
I do believe, that it has something to do with the bully (Hiro) having something (or someone) else to concentrate on, rather than just Weebs. That said, it may or may not work every time.

[MisterGribs]

MisterGribs

Thanks for the title, but I'm far from being a guru of anything really, lol.

Very nice sized cage.
There is definitely more than enough room, so it's not a case of overcrowding.

Regarding Scrambles and Weebs, are you one hundred percent sure that you have a true pair?

As to them sulking in their coconut...
Just imagine a scenerio, where you and the Mrs suddenly had a young couple moving into your house with you, and the young upstart would chase you around smacking you up the side of the head every time he laid eyes on you.

You might want to hide in the coconut as well .

As to why adding a third couple works...
I do believe, that it has something to do with the bully (Hiro) having something (or someone) else to concentrate on, rather than just Weebs. That said, it may or may not work every time.

I'm quite sure they're a true pair. Only Scrambles sings, and Weeb has no markings other than tears. I bought these birds as rescues from horrifying conditions as well, so I strongly suspect that they are somehow damaged. We've had them nearly a year now, and they are contented just to cuddle despite my best efforts to keep their condition good.

My CFWs on the other hand are like rabbits. I've only had them for 12 days and they laid a tiny little egg this morning!!! It's the first zeeb egg I've ever seen. I'll attempt to candle it and any newcomers in about 10 days!

[lovezebs]

MisterGribs

Your first pair, might be old.
Usually older birds just want to snuggle and keep warm, and tend to enjoy sleeping more...... Hey, that doesn't sound half bad from where I'm sitting .

Regarding your new pair, they are just doing what comes naturally to Zebras, lol.

Look at what my two have sprung up on me....

They are sitting on 3 Zebra eggs and one Gouldian egg. I have absolutely no idea if any of the eggs are fertile or not, but time will tell.

[MisterGribs]

MisterGribs

Your first pair, might be old.
Usually older birds just want to snuggle and keep warm, and tend to enjoy sleeping more...... Hey, that doesn't sound half bad from where I'm sitting .

Regarding your new pair, they are just doing what comes naturally to Zebras, lol.

Look at what my two have sprung up on me....

They are sitting on 3 Zebra eggs and one Gouldian egg. I have absolutely no idea if any of the eggs are fertile or not, but time will tell.

You're right, they may be old! The person we bought them from wasn't very honest... She told us they were barely 2 years old, but they may actually be much, much older. It would explain Scrambles' poor health. I don't mind, honestly! I'm just happy to have them, they're the best kind of amusement.


I saw your tiny family's little nest on another post. ;)
Mine are up to three eggs now! We have separated Scrambles and Weeb to the gym fulltime, and the two new parents get the whole place to themselves. Oddly enough, Vilu started incubating on the first day, so now I have no idea when I should candle them.

When the gouldian chick hatches, will they actually feed it and raise it to maturity?

[w.l.]

MisterGribs

Why candle them?
I prefer not to disturb nests.
If the eggs are fertile, they will hatch.
If not, candling won't chage it anyway.
But with zebras, chances are they are fertile, and you'll soon find yourself a new dilemma: where to put all the young?

[MisterGribs]

MisterGribs

Why candle them?
I prefer not to disturb nests.
If the eggs are fertile, they will hatch.
If not, candling won't chage it anyway.
But with zebras, chances are they are fertile, and you'll soon find yourself a new dilemma: where to put all the young?

That's why I'm candling them! I plan to replace all but one with dummies. I want to make sure I don't accidentally leave an infertile one. The fewer clutches laid, the better for my hen.

I don't want to increase my aviary beyond 6, don't plan to go into business or wind up with lots of homeless birbs, so I've got lots of dummies for when I plan to breed, and intend to remove all nests and further eggs when I'm not.

You would be amazed how hard it was to find any zebras at all in my area of Finland.. Mine were in poor conditions.. And they were 80 euros each. Yikes. Meanwhile there's plenty of budgies.

[w.l.]

You would be amazed how hard it was to find any zebras at all in my area of Finland.. Mine were in poor conditions.. And they were 80 euros each. Yikes. Meanwhile there's plenty of budgies.

That sounds crazy indeed.
And you are not in a remote area! Would zebras be so hard to find and expensive even in Helsinki?
They are usually the most commoly sold and cheapest finches.
Then again, in Scandinavia nothing is cheap.

[MisterGribs]

You would be amazed how hard it was to find any zebras at all in my area of Finland.. Mine were in poor conditions.. And they were 80 euros each. Yikes. Meanwhile there's plenty of budgies.

That sounds crazy indeed.
And you are not in a remote area! Would zebras be so hard to find and expensive even in Helsinki?
They are usually the most commoly sold and cheapest finches.
Then again, in Scandinavia nothing is cheap.

Yes, they can be difficult to find even in Helsinki!

[w.l.]

MisterGribs

Well, if that's so, maybe you should breed them!
Not for the money, but to increase availability of them.
Or no one would be interested in having them?

[lovezebs]

MisterGribs

Congratulations on the eggs.

I read your post about Zebra Finches being very rare (I didn't realize that you were in Finland).

If Zebras are so rare, maybe you could go into business .
Over here (in Canada) Zebras, are quite inexpensive. In the Pet Shops, usually $22.00 or $23.00 (15.80 -16.53 €) and from private breeders, between $5.00 to $15.00 (3.59 - 10.78 €), and quite often for free.

Glad that you have found an arrangement that works for your birds, to keep the trouble maker away from the other two.

You ask whether the Zebras will hatch and rear Gouldian chicks? Both Society Finch (Bengalese), and Zebra Finch, will usually hatch and raise Gouldian babies.

I am not breeding my Gouldians right now, but have one pair who won't give up , so I will occasionally find a Gouldian egg on the floor of the flight cage.

Seeing as theseZebras were sitting anyway, I decided to put the extra eggs under them and see what happens.

What's the weather like in Finland?