Advice please

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Branching out
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Advice please

Post by Branching out » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:31 pm

Hello, I am based in the UK and have kept Budgies and a canary for the past five years or so. I have nearly 40 years experience in fishkeeping but am becoming increasingly interested in birds, think finches are interesting and now have a study in which I can keep them safely.

I have been reading on the internet but this has just confused me. I will be building a cage in an alcove. It is 48 inches long, will measure either 15 or 20 inches from front to back and is planned to be 20 inches high. One thing I have read repeatedly is that height is not important but I could make the cage taller if necessary; certainly 30 inches and maybe more if it was to make a difference.

I am not particularly interested in breeding the birds; I have done that with fish and have experienced the issues of rehoming youngsters that are of sentimental value to me but limited value to others; I would like an interesting cage with attractive birds in. The current design means I could divide it into two 24" cages if necessary but I have done that really for ease of cleaning one half at a time and in cage of emergencies.

Using the cage size calculator and other information I have found,the internet seems to be telling me that I can only have one pair of finches in this cage, even though I could have a pair in a cage 18 inches by 15 by 15. Is this right? I understand that finches in stock cages at the aviary or pet shop are not there long term but I am not seeing what I think are really stressed birds in large groups in cages smaller than the one I am building. If finches are social, why only a pair and then what happens if one dies?

If I really can just have a pair in a cage that size, am I better off keeping the (solid) divider in and have two 24 inch cages with a pair in each? If I don't put nests in could the cage house three pairs and if so, would it be better to have all the same species or a mixture of more peaceful ones?

Zebra finches are available everywhere and whilst I would consider them, I prefer owl finches and spice finches from what I have seen. Society finches are usually called Bengalese over here and I have seen some nice examples of those. Obviously I think Lady G's are beautiful but I understand they are not for beginners and I like Java sparrows very much but think the cage would probably be too small for them.

Finally, and thanks for reading this far, as I am not intending to breed them, I would like birds that should be relatively long lived and again the internet is contradictory about that eg. one source says three years for Bengalese, whereas others say five eight, or even up to twelve. Is there any consensus about which species are generally more long lived?

All advice gratefully received.

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Babs _Owner
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Re: Advice please

Post by Babs _Owner » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:51 pm

Branching out

Welcome to the forum! =D> The sky is the limit! Everyone here has their favorites and there are lots of species to choose from.

You want your cage to be a minimum 30 inches wide to allow flight. Let us know what you choose . And feel free to ask the members about certain species you are curious about.!

Zebras are plentiful, but in my opinion not a great species for beginners. They can be somewhat aggressive and unpredictable. Owls or spice finches sound like a great option.

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Re: Advice please

Post by Sheather » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:30 pm

Go as high and wide as possible, if you feed on the floor, the space is never wasted, and you can fit another pair or two if the height is substantially increased.

In a cage of 48 x 20 x 30+ inches I would feel comfortable with four pairs of any species except zebras, if you are not providing nests or breeding. I have kept six society finches in 30 x 18 x 18 cages a number of times and they are not stressed in the least. I currently have two canaries and three societies in this same cage, and no problems, but they get time out to fly in the house.

Gouldians are not actually hard to care for, if you find a source with healthy birds.

Javas are a little too large for this setup in my opinion, but not entirely unreasonable. The issue is some javas are social and would do fine in a cage with other birds and some are not very tolerant of other species, and you don't know which you're going to get.

Stay far away from zebras, they're very aggressive.
~Dylan

~~~

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Re: Advice please

Post by Flight Feathers » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:05 pm

Yes I have zebra finches and they do fight when there is more than one pair in the same cage/avairy. Although it would depend on how the big the cage is and how many you have. Never keep two zebra finche pairs together. The rule is 1 pair or 3 or more pairs per cage for zebra finches. I just keep all my pairs separated tho as it's easier.
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Re: Advice please

Post by Flight Feathers » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:06 pm

I probably wouldn't recommend zebra finches if your wanting a few finches and you don't want to breed them :-)
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Re: Advice please

Post by Fraza » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:57 pm

.
Last edited by Fraza on Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FINCHES I HAVE
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid



PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s

My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader


YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3

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Fraza
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Re: Advice please

Post by Fraza » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:57 pm

I would suggest a society to be honest I think they are best and also stars are good to go with them as they are passive also owls look great maybe you could get one of each, however I agree with everyone else don’t get zebras haha

And I’m in the uk where are u based
FINCHES I HAVE
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid



PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s

My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader


YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3

Branching out
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Re: Advice please

Post by Branching out » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:22 pm

Thanks for all the advice and information; this fits much more with what I thought I knew before researching on the internet! I've just measured the space carefully and the base dimensions can be no larger than 48 inches by 18 inches. A height of 25 inches would work well in terms of construction and maintenance. So those are the likely dimensions of the cage.

The plan, then, would be for three pairs of non-nesting birds, probably chosen from owl finches, spice finches, Bengalese and Heck's depending upon what is available and looks good when I am buying.

I wasn't particularly considering zebras for all the reasons you have identified and whilst Java sparrows are beautiful, I don't think I'd be giving them enough room.

It will take me a while to build things, so I am expecting to be ready in about six weeks and I will keep reading on this forum.

Just a couple more questions; I mentioned lifespan, if the birds are healthy and well bred, do all these fall into the 'five to seven years' bracket? I am thinking it is best to put them all in at the same time, so no territories are already established; is that right?. If I am not breeding from them, does it matter about the sex of the birds? And finally if I had four of one type listed and two of another, would the four gang up on the two?

Thanks again for all the help so far.

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Fraza
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Re: Advice please

Post by Fraza » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:42 pm

Branching out yeh I would say put them all in together at the same time as you said cos of terrotity reasons however it sounds good you plan can’t wait to see your work :mrgreen:
FINCHES I HAVE
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid



PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s

My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader


YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3

Branching out
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Re: Advice please

Post by Branching out » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:01 pm

Great. Does it matter about the sex of the birds and would four of one species gang up on two of another?

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Re: Advice please

Post by Icearstorm » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:08 pm

Branching out

I would be careful with Heck's finches, as they are described as pushy, while the others you're considering are generally passive. This might not be too much of an issue if they are outnumbered in a flight cage, but be careful. Finch Compatibility Chart

An all-male collection could be good, as there would be no risk of breeding or egg-binding, and all the birds should sing. Some males can be more aggressive than females, though this shouldn't be a problem with non-breeding passive birds.

If you have both males and females, it's best to avoid having less females than males of a species, since multiple males could wear a single female out. This is also less of a problem with non-breeding passive birds, but still worth considering.

If you keep pushy birds with passive birds, it is best that the passive ones outnumber the pushy ones to reduce the percentage of aggression each individual bird recieves. Otherwise, keeping two pairs of one species and one of another shouldn't be much of an issue, provided that the birds get along with others of their species. The birds you are considering should be fine with others of their kind.

Society finches tend to be shorter-lived than the other species, but this could be due to lack of care from overbreeding or being seen as beginners' birds. They should still live for at least four years, especially without the stress of breeding.

Quarantine is recommended, especially when the birds come from different sources of unknown quality. The time can range from a couple of weeks to half a year; I found two weeks to be sufficient, but longer is generally better. If you only have one cage, it would be best to buy all your birds at the same time from the same source. If you only have two cages, you could quarantine a bird or pair in a temporary quarantine cage before introducing it to the main cage and buying new birds to put in the quarantine cage. This would work best if you get the passive birds first, and the pushy birds last and move the perches around before adding the quarantined birds to the main cage.

Lady Gouldian finches can be fairly hardy, provided that they are good-quality and cared for properly. I would be cautious with the blue backs, though, as they have a tendency to be more delicate. Gouldians do have an energy-intensive compressed moult, but it shouldn't cause problems so long as they have access to nutritious food and good housing.

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Re: Advice please

Post by Fraza » Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:30 pm

I’ve noticed the heck’s can be abit pushy but they go okay nothing like zebras haha
FINCHES I HAVE
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid



PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s

My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader


YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3

Branching out
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Re: Advice please

Post by Branching out » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:09 am

Okay, thanks. If I do go for Heck's I'll only have two of them. I've seen them described as quiet and pushy online, so hearing from personal experience is always very useful.

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Fraza
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Re: Advice please

Post by Fraza » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:20 pm

Branching out what part of uk are u from
FINCHES I HAVE
Bengalese
zebras
Java sparrows
Silver bills
java x beng hybrid



PETS IVE HAD
dogs
Fish
Cocktiel
Doves
Hybrid cherry x Bengalese
Stars
Heck’s
Canary’s

My favourite is COCO my grey pearl society cock been here since the start my flock leader


YOUTUBE CHANNEL
https://m.youtube.com/results?q=fraser% ... de101&sm=3

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Re: Advice please

Post by wilkifam » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:44 pm

They all sound good, except Hecks, they can be very agressive, somewhat like having Zebras around.
Lori

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Bourkes
Scarlets
Myers Parrot - Murphy
African Gray - Nzinga
2 GSD's - Heidi and Chiko
1 Minpin - Ted
1 Heinz 57 - Buster Brown
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