Are my new finches too young? How much arguing is too much?

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Sophi
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Are my new finches too young? How much arguing is too much?

Post by Sophi » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:55 am

I have a java finch called Nero whose mate died recently.
They sometimes argued and had little fights but all in one both were very friendly birds.
After the death of the female I decided to get some new java finches since Nero became very quiet and seemed very lonely in his cage.
I bought three new birds (two females and one male) which all already knew each other and seemed the most friendly around other birds.

I put them in a cage next to Nero so they could get used to each other and there were absolutely  no signs of aggression or anything, just four birds that were very interested in each other...so interested that both sides wanted to be with each other over the night (or at least tried to get into each others cage...in a friendly way of course).
Well, I usually wait a week before I put new and old birds together but since they were so interested in each other I decided to put them together after just two days - with a good result as they all spent the night together on the same branch.

All in one their mood hasn't changed much. They are still interested in each other, sometimes sleep on the same branch, and eat together but I also see them arguing with each other.
Of course Nero shows some dominance towards the new birds - I already knew that from my other birds and at first didn't see much of a problem in that - however I observed something else that worries me a bit:
The three birds which I bought are rather young.
Of course they have all their feathers and drink/eat on their own but one of them (the male) is still begging for food sometimes.
Another breeder, who I sometimes talk to, thinks that they are to young to be separated from their parents especially since they still have small yellow spots on the sides of their beak.
To be honest I now feel like an absolute idiot.
I have already owned many birds (canaries and zebra finches) but I always bought adults and never juveniles.
The breeder who sold me the birds assured me that they would eat and drink on their own and therefore could be separated from their parents. Of course I informed myself before getting them and never read anything else so I just bought them and didn't really think about them maybe being to young.
I have now observed them over the past days and can definitely say that they eat and drink on their own but I feel very insecure.
Is it possible that they are too young if they already eat and drink on their own?
Did I make a grave mistake or is it okay to have them here? :oops:

Now the last question: As I already mentioned they sometimes argue with each other.
Most of the time it is because the new ones try to sit/sleep next to Nero or (in the case of the new male) beg for food which results in him trying to get rid of them.

I don't know...he sometimes has phases where he tolerates or ignores them (as long as they don't come to cuddle or sleep next to him) but then he has phases where he does that 'snake-move' and randomly chases them away from a branch or toy.
Of course some arguing is normal during the first week but ...how much arguing is too much? When do I have to interfere?

I hope that someone here can help me. The new birds have such sweet personalities, I just don't want anything to happen to them.

(English isn't my first language and it can happen that I make some grammar mistakes. I would appreciate it, if you could tell me in case you find some very bad mistakes.)

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lovezebs
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Re: Are my new finches too young? How much arguing is too m

Post by lovezebs » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:26 pm

Sophi

Hi Sophi, and welcome to the Forum. It's always nice to have new members from other countries join us here. Your English, by the way, is excellent :-BD .

Regarding your issue with the Javas.

If the new youngsters are eating and drinking on their own, then they should be fine away from their parents.

If your young male is begging still, then you could try offering him a bit of food yourself ( which may make him tame ).

Regarding Nero chasing them away.... as long as he's not attacking them, I would not worry too much. If however he actually attacks any of them, I would remove the youngsters to a separate cage for a while and let them visit through the bars.

It is not unusual for a senior bird to be territorial about his perch, his cage, etc. After all this is his home and he was here first. It would be like someone moving 3 strange teenagers into your house and telling you that you have to learn to love them :lol: and share your food, your bed, and everything with them :-O .

I would recommend moving the perches in your cage around, placing more food and water dishes in the cage. Oh.... and make sure that the cage is big enough to hold 4 Javas comfortably.

Good luck, and looking forward to hearing more about you and your birds.
~Elana~

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Re: Are my new finches too young? How much arguing is too m

Post by Flight Feathers » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:40 pm

How big is your cage? If the fighting does not subside you could try getting a bigger cage perhaps, and then put lots of greenery in it so that the javas can get cover from Nero.
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Re: Are my new finches too young? How much arguing is too m

Post by Sophi » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:42 pm

Thanks for the nice words and the quick responds ((:
lovezebs wrote: If your young male is begging still, then you could try offering him a bit of food yourself ( which may make him tame ).

[...]

I would recommend moving the perches in your cage around, placing more food and water dishes in the cage. Oh.... and make sure that the cage is big enough to hold 4 Javas comfortably.
I cleaned the cage completely, moved everything around (except for his favourite toy, he hates it when I put it somewhere else) and added many new food and water dishes before I put the new birds into it to prevent Nero from becoming too territorial.

Regarding feeding the young male.
He is already very trusting and even calmer than Nero when I change the water or clean up the bowls in their cage.
I have actually never owned a bird that was so calm after such a short time and will definitely try feeding him by hand.
But to be honest all three of them are very trusting even though the breeder said something completely different. I am very happy that I got them :D
lovezebs wrote: Regarding Nero chasing them away.... as long as he's not attacking them, I would not worry too much. If however he actually attacks any of them, I would remove the youngsters to a separate cage for a while and let them visit through the bars.
To be honest I am having some trouble deciding if he is just chasing them away or trying to start a fight.
He is mostly just chasing them away if they get to close to him but then sometimes he “attacks“ them out of nowhere.
I am not sure if these acts are real attacks since it is more like short pecking and then mostly turning away (or chasing them for a short round but it is usually over after 2-5 seconds).?

They actually seem to get along better with every day. As I am writing this he already allows them to sleep even closer to him than before...I guess I am just a bit overprotective but I don't want to make any mistakes. Especially since Nero is much stronger than them and could probably hurt them much more than they could hurt him in case of a fight.
Flight Feathers wrote: How big is your cage? If the fighting does not subside you could try getting a bigger cage perhaps, and then put lots of greenery in it so that the javas can get cover from Nero.

I am not a fan of small cages and am sure that the current cage is big enough for them, I don't know the exact size but I know that I checked if it would be big enough for at least two pairs before buying it. Additionally all my birds are allowed to fly free in my room during the day so the space shouldn't be an issue. (Well at the moment it's just Nero that is allowed to fly around, the youngsters are still a bit too small I think.)
But I will try to put some greenery in it. Is there anything specific you would recommend?

Thanks again for the quick responds ((:

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Re: Are my new finches too young? How much arguing is too m

Post by lovezebs » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:14 pm

Sophi

Glad to hear that things are coming along better.

Artificial greenery can be added to the cage to offer some private areas for individuals to get away from each other if they feel the need to do so. Here is an example...
20171028_185030.png
A bird attack can be sudden and cruel, so that's something to watch for very carefully.

Here is a video of aggression between 2 Javas https://youtu.be/02Q1P7TjzTg If it's just noise and threatening lunges, I would not be too concerned. If however he is actually making contact, pecking, pulling out feathers, drawing blood or causing injury, then that's when you definitely seperate them.

If the new babies are calm, you can offer them food in the palm of your hand, and see if they will come to eat. Javas, are very intelligent and if they learn to trust you, they will become tame.

Free flight in a safe environment, is a excellent way to offer your birds exercise.
~Elana~

Linnies~ Canaries ~ Zebras ~ Societies ~ Gouldians ~ Orange Cheeks ~ Shaft Tails ~ Strawberries ~ Red Cheek Cordon Bleu ~ Goldbreasts ~ Red Brows ~ Owls ~ Budgies ~ Diamond Firetails ~ Javas ~ Forbes Parrot Finches ~

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Re: Are my new finches too young? How much arguing is too m

Post by Flight Feathers » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:38 pm

Sophi wrote: Thanks for the nice words and the quick responds ((:
lovezebs wrote: If your young male is begging still, then you could try offering him a bit of food yourself ( which may make him tame ).

[...]

I would recommend moving the perches in your cage around, placing more food and water dishes in the cage. Oh.... and make sure that the cage is big enough to hold 4 Javas comfortably.
I cleaned the cage completely, moved everything around (except for his favourite toy, he hates it when I put it somewhere else) and added many new food and water dishes before I put the new birds into it to prevent Nero from becoming too territorial.

Regarding feeding the young male.
He is already very trusting and even calmer than Nero when I change the water or clean up the bowls in their cage.
I have actually never owned a bird that was so calm after such a short time and will definitely try feeding him by hand.
But to be honest all three of them are very trusting even though the breeder said something completely different. I am very happy that I got them :D
lovezebs wrote: Regarding Nero chasing them away.... as long as he's not attacking them, I would not worry too much. If however he actually attacks any of them, I would remove the youngsters to a separate cage for a while and let them visit through the bars.
To be honest I am having some trouble deciding if he is just chasing them away or trying to start a fight.
He is mostly just chasing them away if they get to close to him but then sometimes he “attacks“ them out of nowhere.
I am not sure if these acts are real attacks since it is more like short pecking and then mostly turning away (or chasing them for a short round but it is usually over after 2-5 seconds).?

They actually seem to get along better with every day. As I am writing this he already allows them to sleep even closer to him than before...I guess I am just a bit overprotective but I don't want to make any mistakes. Especially since Nero is much stronger than them and could probably hurt them much more than they could hurt him in case of a fight.
Flight Feathers wrote: How big is your cage? If the fighting does not subside you could try getting a bigger cage perhaps, and then put lots of greenery in it so that the javas can get cover from Nero.

I am not a fan of small cages and am sure that the current cage is big enough for them, I don't know the exact size but I know that I checked if it would be big enough for at least two pairs before buying it. Additionally all my birds are allowed to fly free in my room during the day so the space shouldn't be an issue. (Well at the moment it's just Nero that is allowed to fly around, the youngsters are still a bit too small I think.)
But I will try to put some greenery in it. Is there anything specific you would recommend?

Thanks again for the quick responds ((:
I'm not a fan of small cages either!! Thats awesome you let them out to fly around and give them plenty of exercise :) for greenery I usually use pitisporum and sometimes silver beet and pansy plants :)
~Flight Feathers Bird Home~

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Now a member of the NZFBA!


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Re: Are my new finches too young? How much arguing is too m

Post by Fraza » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:37 pm

Hi just wondering because you said two of them are females is he by any chance bullying the younger male as he thinks he might be a threat towards him and getting terrotirial

Just thinking Nero wants the girls and he’s worried that the other male is a threat therefore attacking it

Also he could just be feeling abit strange as he’s lost his mate (who he might have had with him long ) and he’s thinking who are these idiot kids haha but am sure it will work out good for you :mrgreen:
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