Some odd general questions

[OldGregg]

Sally sheather thank you guys so much! I am really excited to learn more about the javas and societies. they sound wonderful and I think they will be a perfect match.

[Babs _Owner]

OldGregg

I'm with Dylan & Sally regarding taming Javas. I hand raised 3. One I put back in the flight with my java community and he has reverted to wild.

However, the two that stay in my office are free-flight and I work from home......so while I'm at my computer they are sitting on my hat peering over the edge to look at my face upside down, snoozing on my shoulder or riding the back of my hands while I do data entry at the computer.

Both come to me if I whistle and enjoy being kissed on their bellies. Hardy, intelligent, robust in size and very inquisitive.....they have become my very favorite species. They really are little clowns.

Best part of my morning is opening their cage and watching them do their celebratory greeting ritual of flying in circles over my head.

Like clockwork around 4pm they go back in the cage on their own & settle down for the rest of the evening.

Video of the 3 I hand reared. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROMZF2nTIpU

[OldGregg]

Babs oh my! That is so cute!!! I would love that. I def want to go with javas now. I really enjoyed handraising and would love that experience again. My husband said I was crying from being so tired (I work graveyard and so had to wake up during my nighttime for feedings) but I don't really remember that. Just loving to watch them grow and learn.

Now just need to find some javas

[goldfinchowl]

A easy indoor type aviary to make
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qC0lioJk4aY

[Sheather]

OldGregg Babs

My two Javas weren't hand-raised. I bought them at separate pet stores a few months apart as juveniles/young adults. I trained them pretty straightforwardly like you used to see books recommend you tame parakeets in the old days - small cage, no perches, and repeatedly pressing my finger up to their bellies until they stopped fighting it and stepped on. It took about half an hour with both to start stepping on, Javas are a lot calmer than most finches and they never panicked as some would so this method worked. I have tried the same thing with a canary and it did not work at all.

Once we got over the initial hand shyness, I started to feed millet spray from my hand and only when they were perches on my finger. In three days, they were hopping on my finger to eat and within a week they stepped up when I presented a finger to come in and out of the cage.

I bought and trained Buttons in March... got her a companion in May. I trained both the same way and they both progressed in the exact same time frame. Buttons was older when I started training, almost in adult plumage with just a few brown patches left, but she was still easily tamed. Both birds now live together and have remained completely tame. I started clicker-training in July and taught them both to come to their own names. They step up, give me kisses, Buttons likes to sit on my shoulder and Bobbin spends lots of time playing on my computer desk where she gets into everything. I can call either one from across the room and have them fly to my finger. I just love them and cannot recommended them enough.

From working with two unrelated birds at different ages at different times and getting such a successful result both times I'd say the Java is very easily tamed (more so than a budgie) but the first couple of days are most important because you need to the bird to stop fearing your hand to progress any further. The method I used, which is forcing the animal to accept something it does not want to do, is controversial but I do not personally feel it is something to totally avoid as long as you are making sure not to stress the bird too much. If it's really panicking, and panting trying to escape your hand, give it a break. My Javas even when wild were never that afraid of me - they did not want my hand by them but they very quickly realized I wasn't going to hurt them and accepted it. And the end result - such loving tame pets who can now enjoy a higher quality of life - seems worth it.

Buttons came to me wing-clipped but Bobbin did not. This did not affect their training at all and Buttons has since become fully flighted again.

[Fernando]

¿wing clipped? Is that allowed in the USA?

It is an interesting reading and every one can take their own conclusions. I strongly doubt there is a higher quality of life for the birds (comparing to what?) - you have just trained an animal to do funny things for you. It is something completely different when a bird joins you because it is its will - like the robin that 'talked to me' this late afternoon while I was preparing compost in the garden - some 50 cm away. I had no earthworms to offer ... anyway the bird spend a half hour with me, following me and chirping all the way.

[Sheather]

¿wing clipped? Is that allowed in the USA?

It is an interesting reading and every one can take their own conclusions. I strongly doubt there is a higher quality of life for the birds (comparing to what?) - you have just trained an animal to do funny things for you. It is something completely different when a bird joins you because it is its will - like the robin that 'talked to me' this late afternoon while I was preparing compost in the garden - some 50 cm away. I had no earthworms to offer ... anyway the bird spend a half hour with me, following me and chirping all the way.

Yes - but I don't like it at all myself.

They don't really do any funny things. They are bonded to me as their caretaker, however, and come to me and show affectionate as they do to one another. They love to play on my desk and see what I am up to, to play with the computer and to nibble on my fingers. As far as improved quality of life, what I imply is that since they have been socialized, they don't have any fear of people like caged finches do and so they're probably less stressed because they know I only bring them positive things - treats, attention, and company.

Using positive reinforcement training methods, they learned to come when called, like a dog would. It's not a circus trick, but a functional thing to know - if they ever got outside, they'd be more likely to know how to come back. I've taught them to come to me both from up high and down low, so if they ever got stuck up a tree, they knew how to control their flight down when called. They control the interactions. I "forced" them to get over that initial fear in the first couple days but I didn't make them become my friends. Since then, they do what they want, and choose to interact with me. Because they are so trusting and can be handled without any stress, they can be provided more freedom than untame birds and so they are allowed to fly in the home most of the day.

[Icearstorm]

Sheather

Thanks for sharing your training methods. When I had my pair of Javas, they were fairly high-strung, to the point where they would start panting if I did so much as clean their cage... I wonder if they would have calmed down if I trained them. I did get the female to eat some eggfood from my hand while she sat in the nest box, but aside from that, she wasn't too happy about me being around.

The different training methods interest me; it seems like it would be best to train a juvenile or unbonded adult alone since there would be less distraction, but it might be the opposite with a bird with a partner due to stress caused by separation. It's interesting to see how my society finches have learned from each other. After I got Tacocat to stay in one place, Macbeth learned within a day or two, and when Macbeth flew to the nest box, Tacocat started coming as well. Now that I'm trying to get them to eat spray millet from my hand, one of the birds will eventually start eating it and the other one will join them shortly after. This reminds me of a falconry method where the make-hawk, which is already trained to hunt a specific species, flies with a less experienced hawk to indirectly teach it; I imagine there are some good ways to train other animals using falconry principles.

[wildbird]

fernando: The robin that followed you in the garden may have been hand fed raised from a baby by someone and then released. Robins are very people friendly and are sometimes hard to adjust to the wild.

[wildbird]

Sheather: Your birds are beautiful and lucky to have you as their keeper!

[Babs _Owner]

Sheather

I love them!! You've always had such great patience/technique for hand taming your kids.

Fernando


I actually learned & got the courage to allow free flight for my javas from Dylan. Dylan used treats and the clicker just to get the javas over their initial fear of him and his hands. Seems now they come to him simply because they want to.

I hand raised mine so they never had a fear of me at all. They hang out on me just because thats where they want to be. And having an entire room to fly around is quite enjoyable to them. The male sits on my shoulder and sings quite often.

I've never met anyone who clipped a finches wings. I can only imagine that would be done if a finch had an injury & flight had to be discouraged while the finch healed.