Best Source for Birds?

[sierranomad]

Breeder, Broker or Bird Mart?

A breeder and broker are about the same distance away. The breeder has 30 years experience, but only raises a few types of finches. The broker has, I think, every type that I will ever want.

Are brokers less interested in the birds than breeders?

[Ursula]

Just my humble opinion (and I know a lot of members on the forum won't agree with me on that): I would NOTbuy from a broker again. Generally speaking I believe that since they are "only" dealing with the birds they are mostly in for the $$$ and don't care as much for birds as most breeders do. I would also not buy wild caught birds anymore. These poor creatures get caught in the hundreds in the wild and are transported from one continent to another under the most terrible conditions and a big majority of them die during transport. (The same applies to fish and that's the reason why I have fresh water tanks with locally bred fish and not a saltwater tank with wild caught coral fish...)

Like I said: My personal opinion only.

Edit: P.S.: You find both brokers and breeders at bird marts. I don't think there's anything wrong buying birds at a mart from a breeder. Otherwise I wouldn't have the birds that I have because there are hardly any finch breeders in Georgia, as far as I know. Most of my birds come from breeders in Florida who were in Atlanta for the bird show....

[Sally]

I have bought from all three sources and have had mostly good results. You will find good and bad breeders and good and bad brokers. If you want hard-to-find species, you probably will have to go to a broker or a bird mart.

Most brokers are in it for the money, but that doesn't mean they don't care about the birds, either. Some are just as committed to the welfare of the birds they handle as any breeder--after all, they have to pay for them to start with and they are hoping to turn a profit when they sell them. Some are brokers only, and some are also breeders.

Most breeders aren't in it for the money, it is just a way to try to offset the costs involved in keeping more than a few birds. But I have seen and heard of breeders that are only concerned with producing lots of babies, with no regard to bloodlines or the health of their birds. There are bird mills, just as there are puppy mills.

The same thing applies at bird marts. You will see vendors that have clean, uncrowded cages and are knowledgeable about the birds they are selling, and you may see vendors that have dirty, crowded cages, and do not know what they are talking about!

Personally, I would decide what species of birds I wanted to keep, and then try to locate them, whether from a breeder, broker, or mart. Asking lots of questions before a purchase will give you a feel for whether you want to purchase from that source.

And I understand and respect Ursula's feelings about wild-caught birds, she is not alone in that. I do purchase wild-caught birds--most African species were not available for years, as they were not allowed to be exported. When the ban was lifted in 2007, it opened up a window of opportunity for us in the U.S. to get birds that had not been seen for a long time. Many of the birds that are now selling for $25-50 each were $100-200 and up just a few years ago, if you could find them. No doubt, this window will close one day, and then some of these African species will be priced out of my price range, if they are available at all, so I am taking advantage of the opportunity to get some of them now.

I just looked up a post Hilary had made--she paid $180 each for Lavenders in 2007, I just bought four of them for $50 each. I can't remember the price I paid for my first pair of Goldbreasts in 2007, but it was many times what they sell for now. This drop in prices is directly due to the import of so many African wild-caughts.

[annague]

Ok. I'm going to stir the pot here and say the following: I think it's great to support the breeders first and always in preference to a broker. HOWEVER, if you have a type of bird you want and can only get it through a broker then I think you should go for it. After all, every bird needs a good home regardless of who is selling it.

Having said that I have to also say that breeders are by far the most ethical and caring about their birds and will be there for you long after the broker has gone out of business or moved on.

[williep]

Sally raises a good point on the wild caught birds. Although I fully support the conservation of the natural birdlife in Africa and across the world, the lift on the export ban has made a lot of African finches available again. A couple of years ago, local breeders were just not selling their African Species but the introduction of wild caught birds has changed that. They are now more readily available, more affordable and most importantly in my opinion have strengthened the blood lines or future generations in aviculture.

I still prefer to buy from reputable breeders (including some African Finches) as they are bred in captivity hence adapt quicker and I know the environment in which they were bred. Like birds I intend to keep in my outside aviaries should ideally have been bred in similar conditions. But if I are looking for a specific bird, I will buy it from anywhere legal!

[B CAMP]

If i find birds i want i buy breeders are good somtimes and not so good other times.
Does it make a breeder bad if he sells a lot of his stock to one person [broker]
If the bird looks healthy and you want get it.
You can get bad birds from breeders,brokers.

[sierranomad]

Thank you all.

I really value hearing various input. It helps me make decisions I feel comfortable with. It makes sense that there are good/bad breeders and brokers.

[JohnBoy]

Ditto to Sally's post.
One thing people also forget to mention or just don't know is that a lot of these birds are a nuisance in their own country and are killed by the thousands by farmers. In India the Strawberry finch is killed by the tens of thousands each year. I would hope by now their government has put a stop to this.This is worse to me than exporting the birds.
Also I believe the majority of the birds do survive and get good homes from people like us here at Finchforum who give them everything they need plus. I know all my imports are healthy, happy birds. If the majority did not survive the price of the birds would be higher than they are. And the main reason they are as high as they are is because of the fees the stations have to pay for inspections by the government, feeding, meds during quarantine, etc. So a bird that may have cost them $5 has to sell for possibly $60 after all the expenses for that one bird.
And personally I have had more problems with birds I have bought from breeders than I have from imported birds.

[dfcauley]

I don't know.... it seems so cruel to put a wild caught bird into a cage. I have some in my aviavy, but they have loads of room!

I will buy from whoever I feel cares for their birds and takes care of them. Doesn't matter to me if it is a broker or a breeder. Although I will say that I believe breeders care more for their birds because MOST of them are not in it just for the money. And let me say....there are some breeders that I would NOT buy from. I have had some birds will lots of problems that I bought from breeders....
It is just a gamble with buying birds.......

[MLaRue]

Another thought is a species like Gouldians if breeders weren't breeding them then there would be no more available because we can't import.

I think all of us need to take advantage of these imports because if we don't and the imports stop we will most likely end up with nothing because too many don't take this hobby serious enough to preserve the species we do have in our flocks.

[nixity]

Which is exactly why I can't get my white hooded nuns
The imports were coming in steadily up until Avian Flu stopped asian imports.
They were so prevalent nobody bothered to really work on breeding them, and now almost all of the available stock has died out or is too old.
When you do find birds, they are SO expensive and likely old or bad breeders

[Sally]

And what happened with the Strawberries, too. They were so common that most didn't bother breeding them--figured they'd just buy some more when they needed them. When I got my first Strawberry, which was a PetsMart rescue that the manager of the store gave to me, I think they were selling them for $46. When I tried to find a mate for her, someone at the FW Bird Mart had 4 males, I think they wanted $35 each for them. I bought one for $25, as they looked awful--every one was plucked, bald head, and corkscrew nails. Had I known how scarce they would become, I would have bought all of them!

Now the Strawberry population is aging, and the only thing that saves it from extinction in the U.S. is that some are still coming in from Canada, and a few come from Puerto Rico. And a few breeders are having a little success.

Misty is right, don't take these imports for granted. The day will come when the African imports will stop, and unless we have a good population built up, they will slowly age and disappear. The Blue-capped Cordon Bleu is one African waxbill that is being bred more and more--hopefully it is getting fairly well established, but those who do work with this species need to keep careful records, so that they can diversify the bloodlines.

[MLaRue]

I was just talking to a broker that was telling me about the Violet Ear - and that some two hundred or two thousand were imported (I can't remember the specific number) and to think I only know of two breeders in the US that have them and what we have is coming from Canada. Many people didn't have success with them because they are harder to breed. But even though we are importing African species the Violet Ear comes from a very harsh part of Africa and the trappers and exporters don't want to be bothered because of the fees associated with birds in this area.

Another bird we simply don't have anymore is the gorgeous Crimson Finch from Australia. Unless we can get some from Canada or Europe we likely will never see them again in our aviaries.

[CandoAviary]

You know it is like many things in life.... you don't appreciate something until it's gone

[Domenic]

It is pretty upsetting thinking of the dwindling populations of some of our favorite finches in captivity. I do hope one day Asian imports will open for a short time and serious breeders will take advantage this time. It seems like many are taking advantage with african imports--including myself.