Anyone know where I can find a bird muzzle???

[annague]

Thanks for the laugh, Dave! Don't worry -- everyone feels the same terror the first time we hold such a fragile creature and clip nails. It will get better with time.

I used to be very nervous too but now I just grab them up, hold them securely and clip away! (I have even cut a little too short a couple of times but I just dipped that particular toe in the styptic powder and held a finger on the end of the nail for about a minute to make sure the bleeding stopped.) The birds have been fine afterward. (Although I've gotten some dirty looks ). Can't blame them for that, I guess.

[DCbeachboy]

UPDATE: Isolating the hen succeeded in calming her down somewhat -- for a couple of days. But then we were back to square one, and she's once again as rowdy (randy?) as ever.

Both birds are now almost completely through their molt, with just a handful of pin feathers remaining on their heads. So today is the day...I'm sterilizing their cage before finally giving them what I know they've been wanting for several months -- their own private nestbox where they can tryst the night away!

I've ordered a close-focus nestcam that I'll be installing on top of the box, so hopefully I'll be able to watch the miracle of birth (ok, hatching) live when the time comes. Even though I've still got my doubts whether they (and I) are ready for this new responsibility.....I'll admit to feeling a bit like an expectant daddy -- much to my surprise. Am keeping my fingers crossed that allowing her to nest calms her down considerably. As much as I hate to think about it, I realize this is her one and only hope of remaining in this household.

With her latest molt, she is even more beautiful than ever -- her former orange-red mask is now a rich scarlet, and she's lost a couple of unruly breast feathers that were always out of place in the past. Lately, even the male has been admiring her more in the morning when they first wake up -- before she begins her endless frantic calls. She typically tries to perch on the cage bars directly over his head while loudly calling -- which he can't stand and has begun hissing and chasing her away when she's in that mood. Can't blame him, poor lil guy.

[annague]

Oh I love that you're getting a camera!!! I hope you get to see some really cool stuff and can share it with us.

[ac12]

Dave
Positioning the camera is everything. If you want to see what is going on, you have to position the camera lower down, so you can look at a low angle. In my case, I have to point mine straight down and from that angle, I cannot see anything when the bird is above the egg/hatchling. I really miss the action compared to when I had the camera lower down. But, the tradeoff with the camera low was a limited viewing angle. I could only see a small portion of the nest, and thus could not see everything that was going on in the nest.

BTW, a nestcam is a TIME SINK. You will just sit and watch, and sit and watch, and ....

gud luk

[DCbeachboy]

Thanks for the tips -- and yes, I realize I'm going to need to limit my viewing time so that it doesn't become even more of a time sink than the birds themselves already are. I'll admit, I do tend to pamper them at times.

As for the camera view.....so far there's nothing to worry about, as the birds still seem intimidated by the nestbox and after several days haven't entered it yet. It hangs on the cage exterior in the back, near the roof, in a door I'd formerly used for their bath. Both birds have been very curious about the box and keep peering at it.....and the hen even poked her beak inside for 2-3 seconds on the second day after it was installed. Neither she nor the male have gone within an inch of the nestbox since, that I've noticed anyway.

Trying to give them a headstart, I also installed a twig nest in the bottom of the nestbox, lined it with a felt-like nestliner, then topped that with nesting material (sisal and coconut fibers, jute, cotton pods and horsehair). I've also installed a nesting dispenser filled with this material on the side of the cage opposite the nest, and closer to the nest I weaved a large clump of the nesting material through the cage bars for easy access. They keep inspecting the material as if it's a work of art I've hung on the wall of their home -- staring at it for a long while, cocking their heads, as if to say, "I'm not really sure WHAT it is!"

I'm including a photo of the empty nest -- sadly, still awaiting its new occupants. Oh well....guess this makes me an "empty-nester" already!

[lovemyfinch]

They`ll get to it soon enough

[annague]

As Liz told me, recently, "Patience, Grasshopper...."

[DCbeachboy]

UPDATE: Well, after having a nestbox and nesting materials installed for almost 2 weeks, I finally gave up and removed them 2 days ago. As I'm leaving this week for an almost 2-week trip abroad, I wasn't comfortable leaving them with a sitter during the nesting period. If there are any complications from eggbinding, etc., I'd prefer to be here myself to handle that, rather than relying on someone to check on them for a few minutes once every day or two. And I'm not about to ask someone to sit 24/7 with my birds while I'm away for 2 weeks.

The birds essentially had ignored the nestbox while it was installed. Despite an initial curiosity for the first few days, they never showed any strong interest in it, and showed absolutely no interest at all after 4-5 days had passed. However, they did enjoy playing with the nesting materials -- pulling them from the dispenser and instantly dropping them to the cage floor, seemingly having no idea at all what to do with them.

Unfortunately, in the 2 days since I removed the nestbox, they have become OBSESSED with finding it! They spent most of yesterday and so far this morning clucking and searching frantically in the area where the nestbox had been. They really seem completely obsessed with finding something they had ignored while it was there. Of course. The male has begun showing very unusual aggressiveness, as well....apparently frustration.

Both birds also are doing their courtship dance several times a day, for much longer periods than normal....sometimes for 5-10 minutes at a time. Another change is that the hen has been vigorously wiggling her tail both during and after their dance -- whereas she previously had only responded to his dance by lowering her head and shaking it from side to side. Yet she is not in breeding condition. Her beak is not even remotely black -- and hasn't been since she began her molt almost 3 months ago (and which is now complete).

With the male's very sudden aggression these past couple of days, and their obsession over finding the nest I've removed, I'm wondering if they will be ok while I'm away -- or if they may try to mate without a nest. I'm not sure I have much of a choice at this point but to just risk whatever happens -- has anyone else been in this situation?

[CandoAviary]

Dave, Dave, Dave.... Put the nest box back and have a nice vacation. Gouldians have been breeding for eons without the supervision of us humans.
Mine actually do best when I just appear to give fresh water and food. More people have clutch failure from being too involved with the breeding birds...... gouldians do like their privacy.
So hang nestbox, furnish plenty of seed, mineral grit and go have fun... and then come home to a nest full of eggs

(with the male harrassing the female and also with her not being comfortable laying eggs,(no nest) the stress could cause eggbinding... the last thing you want)

[annague]

I agree with Candace.

IMO, they know what to do with the nest and liked the security of having it there (so they could ignore it conveniently). Once you removed it that security of having a nesting site was removed, too and they DO want it.

I'm a hoverer but when I get really busy and just appear at essential times my birds do seem to get along just fine without me -- maybe better.

They will fill it when they are ready. (Although I kind of wish you were going to be there so you could give us a blow-by-blow account.)

[DCbeachboy]

I hear you loud and clear, Candace and Anna -- you do have a way of putting things into proper perspective.

I will do as you suggest -- as long as you think it's ok that she is not in breeding condition and her beak is completely white/red -- without any dark coloration at all. I also know she will need extra protein for egg production. I haven't been providing them either fresh or dry eggfood for the past week, so with my leaving I'm restricted to only the dry now. Would having the sitter provide them with a dish of Miracle Meal every couple of days while I'm away (in addition to the Birds R Us breeding and molting mix) be sufficient for the extra protein she'll need?

[CandoAviary]

I didn't realize she wasn't in breeding condition. I am so conused Why did you give them the nest box in the first place

Obviously it brought the male into thinking he is in condition With him showing more aggression with the hen then I would say either remove the hen to a seperate cage (which I would not want to do if I was going away.... I would want to monitor the seperation) OR put the nest box back... maybe even 2 nestboxes with lots of nesting material stuffed and more pooked through the cage bars along with millet sprays... this should give the male something to do other than harass her..... with his eager building and deciding on which nest to choose (they actually do like to choose) this activety will help to bring that hen into breeding condition. My males will strip the millet sprays and add them to the nest... helps if you cut the sprays into 3 to 5 inch sections... Though I have seen a male wrestle a 12 inch cleaned millet spray into his nest. He had that crib hooked up

[DCbeachboy]

I didn't realize she wasn't in breeding condition. I am so conused Why did you give them the nest box in the first place

Sorry -- but if you think YOU are confused, imagine how I feel. Dealing with 2 youngsters fresh out of adolescence and chomping at the bit to breed has got to be one of the more stressful, confusing ordeals of any first-time parent's life.

I gave them the nestbox for 2 reasons:

• 1) First, to see if that would help to calm her down a bit -- she was driving the male insane with her frantic non-stop LOUD calling all day, from sunup to sundown....not to mention myself and my partner. The thinking was that adding the nestbox hopefully would shut her up and bring her back into breeding condition again. She did eventually calm down somewhat and lessen her frantic calling -- doing it only part of the day now, instead of the entire day. But her beak color didn't change during the 2 weeks she had the nestbox.
  
  2) Second, I was on a strict timeline to try to get her to lay her eggs before I left -- so they would only be incubating while I am away this month. I'd much prefer for them to be merely incubating, rather than her actually laying eggs, in my absence. Yes, maybe I'm overprotective....but I also want to enjoy my trip without wondering if she's eggbound or otherwise ok. There's something to be said for peace of mind -- especially when traveling for relaxation on a trip that's been planned for over 8 months.

Thanks for the guidance, Candace. I don't have a second nestbox to give them, but I'll check around and see if a local pet shop may have a suitable one. But you think that the Miracle Meal will be a suitable protein substitute for the fresh eggfood while I'm away?

[CandoAviary]

Sorry -- but if you think YOU are confused, imagine how I feel. Dealing with 2 youngsters fresh out of adolescence and chomping at the bit to breed has got to be one of the more stressful, confusing ordeals of any first-time parent's life.

Ahhh, teenagers I see she must be a bossy one at that !

How long will you be gone? She probably won't lay eggs right away since she is not quite ready, then it will take about 6 days or so for the egglaying and then another 13 to 16 days for incubating...
So you can be gone for a while. The miracle meal would be fine for them to feed the chicks...but you won't have them for at leat 20 days at the soonest The pair will be fine with their regular seed or pellet diet even while setting up house.
I would not worry about eggbinding. With a hen in good physical condition that has been on a good diet, had calcium and vitamins, with lots of excercise... which your hen has had all of she should have no egg laying issues. It is usually the very young (precolored) , the old, the malnutritioned, the overbred, or the calcium/vitamin D defficient hen that has eggbinding problems. Also hens that are fat and out of muscle tone (why larger cages for excercise is important) and cold temperatures will cause eggbinding .
I wouldn't worry about your hen at all If you are the least bit worried you can add calcium plus to the drinking water.
My thought on the 2 nestboxes was to cause a distraction for the male. A small cardboard box zip tied to the bars would suffice... just lots of places for him to carry the nesting material around to/in/out/etc.

[DCbeachboy]

You know.....the more I learn about this, the more I realize there IS yet to learn. But yes, I realize she's not at high risk of eggbinding; I was merely trying to further reduce the chances by ensuring she's fully ready -- meaning she has been brought into breeding condition and has enough of whatever she needs to produce the eggs -- protein, calcium, etc.

Thanks for the tips, Candace -- I'll do my best. I'll be away for 11 days beginning Thursday. I may try to delay giving them the nest until the day before I leave, just so I can delay the egg-laying until I've returned -- if possible. And if not, then....as they say....qué será será! I'll deal with it.