foster preparation

[6finchfriends]

I'm a little confused on what medicines to give fosters before they foster a clutch of eggs from another species. Do you use the same treatment you would use before you breed, for example, Gouldians? And though my Societies were purchased from a clean breeder, what would or should I treat them with before fostering, just in case they might have been exposed to a protozoa or cochlosomosis and Campylobacter spp. infections? Is there anything to treat that particular infection? Something to get them in tip top health so they don't pass anything to the chicks they foster. It's hard for me to get a grip on exactly what I should do to, preventative wise, to keep my fosters healthy? Sorry so many confused questions. I would be happy to purchase preventative medicines etc. if I knew more about what to buy for healthy birds not just sick birds. I'm not even sure if I'm asking the right questions of being very clear.

[debbie276]

I personally don't think we should be giving our birds drugs to foster. If it turns out the fosters are not clean then I would remove them from your breeding program.
Of course you should always give the natural parents a chance to rear their own young before using fosters.
Here is a very good article about fostering and what problems you may encounter.
http://ladygouldian.com/node/121

[6finchfriends]

Thanks Debbie. I have read all the articles I can get my hands on and I've read that one several times and I know what I might encounter- but - I know there are certain things people do to make sure their birds are in 'breeding condition' health wise. Like worming etc. I know I'm not explaining myself very well. I don't have any eggs to foster but I was wondering some day if I ever do, what should I do to make sure they won't pass on parasites etc that they might have that I don't know about. Or, I don't need to do anything? Like I said, I just wanted to clear this issue up for myself so I know.

[cindy]

I would recommend that you make sure the birds have been given preventives like cocci-care and ronex 12% before letting them raise young. Healthy adult birds can sometimes handle parasites until sick or weakened. The birds can pass parasites by feeding young or through droppings in food and water. Baby birds due to their immature immune systems can become ill and pass away in the nest or later after fledging.

Those two preventatives are very good to do with any new bird in quarantine especially if you plan to breed or use them for fosters. Treat with one product...then probiotics for 3 days then treat with the second.

Both articles explain what happens to the birds
http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/product_coccicare.php
http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/product_ronex12.php

[6finchfriends]

Thank you Cindy! That's what I was trying to say. I was wondering what the experts gave their birds in quarantine or before breeding. Just couldn't find the words.. duh. I wanted to start collecting those most commonly used treatments/preventative medicines. Any more you can think of that I should have on hand for a yearly treatment or quarantine or before breeding season starts? I do plan on getting some gouldian pairs and or eggs, hopefully this fall and I want all my ducks in a row before hand. I have no one here to ask so I'm picking your brains again

[cindy]

I would get the Ronex 12%..6%is not as effective but you can use it in you just have to 4 or 5 times the powder. The way it was explained to me by ladygouldian.com was the 6% is fine for larger birds but finches have a faster metabolism so use the 12% Ronex extra strength.

I would get Cocci-care and Worm-away and probiotics.

Have you treated any of the finches and birds you have now? If not I would definately do the preventives on them now before adding new birds and for their own health prior to raising young. It is easier to do the preventives than it is to cure them of an disease.

[ac12]

Trish
Send me your email via PM and I will send you my quarantine med treatment plan. It is an Excel spreadsheet.

[cindy]

Gary do you include an antibiotic to keep on hand just in case?

[6finchfriends]

I agree Cindy, 110%! Prevention is better than trying to cure a finch in poor health. I haven't treated them with anything since I got the Society and Zebras in March. Mostly because I wasn't quite sure what to purchase or if I should. I will order the 4 you suggested asap. Though all the finches I have are visually healthy, that doesn't give me any insight into their internal workings. Since I give them fresh Dandelion and other fresh greens I have been worried about worms etc. My main concern now is to make sure the finches I have are in tip top physical condition before I add any new finches like Gouldians. And I get 2 free samples with my order! Ooooh, what should I choose??? I like free samples
I feel better now. Thanks! I've been reading so much but I guess sometimes I just have to ask someone to tell me what to do. (cuz I couldn't seem to make an educated decision)

[6finchfriends]

Okay Gary, thanks!

[ac12]

I have an antibiotic but is is not part of my quarantine treatment.

[cindy]

I don't use it for quarantine but to have it on hand just in case...Do you keep Tetratex or Amoxitex? I keep both on hand plus lots of probiotics.

[cindy]

Trish, I got the chart at the bottom in regards to illness, symptoms and cures...a little herb salad sample is a nice treat!

[ac12]

Cindy
I have Amoxitex in my medicine drawer.
The medication being expensive, I have to pick and choose which ones to buy. I wish I could buy them all, to have just in case.

[nixity]

I hate to be a debbie downer here but there are many successful breeders who do not "preventively" treat their birds with anything before breeding.
Quarantine is a different ballgame, of course.

STGF treats their birds either quarterly or bi-annually with Ronivet (perhaps a wormer as well) but these birds are in outdoor facilities where they could be exposed to these organisms.
Indoor seed eating birds, like Gouldians, who are not eating live food, run very little risk of contracting intestinal parasites unless they're brought in by an introduced bird who hasn't been treated in quarantine.

Sure - if you've never wormed your birds in the past, then a worming treatment "just to be sure" is not a big deal, but I don't consider a necessary part of your pre-breeding routine unless you're keeping your birds in outdoor aviaries.

And "preventive" treatment is a misnomer because the only medicines that are really preventive would be cocci-care (or any other coccidiostat like cocci-vet) and SCATT - all of the others mentioned (Worm Away, Amoxitex, and Ronivet/Ronex) won't do anything unless the birds are actually infected with something. Which means that if they aren't: a) you're treating them unnecessarily which is extremely taxing on their tiny livers and also on your wallet and b) you could potentially be creating more problems by making it more difficult for medicines to effectively treat them in the future if and when they do get sick.

When bringing in new birds, obviously I recommend quarantine, but after that, I try to avoid medicating for things unless I suspect a problem.
Before breeding, depending on the species, there are things you can do nutritionally and evironmentally to stimulate a successful breeding season without requiring medication.

In terms of fostering, I agree 100% with what Debbie said. You need to test the fosters first, if you have widespread nestling or fledgling loss that is otherwise unexplained, scrap the birds from your foster program. Either sell them to someone who doesn't plan on using them to foster or simply retire them in your home and get new birds from someone breeding the foster birds and fostering birds in their own home without issue.
It is not advisable to pump medications into foster birds in order to get them to successfully foster without loss - all you're doing is weakening the pool by immuno suppressing the chicks, as well as possibly maturation issues due to liver problems from all the processing of medications at such a young age.

But.. that's just my two cents.