Plucking

[Rothe18]

I have two young Java sparrows, about 8 months old now. They've been living together well until now, but recently one of them started to show a lot of feather loss around the head and over the tail area, just under the wings. I thought molting season was finally starting, but the other one is still totally smooth. The one's looking a little ragged. I suspected plucking, but I never saw it, and they never did anything painful to each other that I saw.

But today I saw the other one pull out a still immature feather with a small bit of blood at the end, and has been going after the other's rear end for the past 20 minutes. So..I guess it really is plucking. I immediately separated them by putting the plucking one into the cage, but the other one freaked and flew all around the cage, trying really hard to get in. They seem to really want to be together, but I know I can't leave them together anymore. I can't get to a pet store today, and I'm afraid to leave them in the same cage tonight... Will a bigger cage help? I can go get one. Would a bigger cage, with a middle divider, be a good idea for them, even though they seem to really want to be together? Please help...I feel terrible for my babies...

[dan78]

Feather plucking is usually due to a few things, bored, dominance or lacking something in the diet. Giving them a bigger cage won't help unless they are divided but a bigger cage is always welcomed. I'm in the belief that it may have something to do with the diet, plucking feathers that still contain blood leads me to this suggestion. Try giving the aggressor egg or live food more frequently along with daily feeding of leafy greens, this can help to try and cover some of the more basic vitamins and minerals, and don't forget the calcium grits.

[Rothe18]

Really? But I vary their diet quite consistently... Once every four or five days I replace their food with a mix of calcium bits, egg powder, seed mix and 2 extra types of seeds, oats, and either dried honey fruit bits or egg food (I alternate) I also give them fresh broccoli, pear, carrot and cucumber throughout the week, as well as millet sprays. They never fight over their regular food, though they bicker over the fresh stuff a little, so I know they're both eating properly.

[L in Ontario]

Their diet appears quite good. Perhaps they are getting into the breeding mode. If the current cage is quite small, a large one would definitely help. I would also offer them distractions (I don't know what you have in your cage or how it is set up, or how large it is) like fake plants/greenery, swings, other plucking items - toys with short strings... The list is endless of what you can add in the cage to keep them busy and keep they minds off plucking each other.

[cindy]

There are multiple reasons for plucking and diet could be one but as Liz said yours looks good but there are others....this article is pretty good and may give you some insight as to why this is happening. Plucking is normally not associated with diet but can be for a host of other factors:

http://zebrafinchsociety.co.uk/index.ph ... &Itemid=68

By chance are either of the two javas male?

a small quote as to some of the reasons....others are outlined on the site:

"Plucked Chest, Flanks, Back or Abdomen in nesting Zebra FinchesThis is pretty rare to see but I have had a couple of occasions were breeding pairs have self-inflicted baldness of this kind. I have only seen this happen from the breast feathers but I have had it reported from all the areas listed. The birds in question having plucked themselves to line their own nests. I have also seen this happen in Java Sparrows too much to my dismay as the particular bird was my most successful show bird before I decided to start breeding with him, from that time onwards he never seemed to be without his bald chest patch. Hens may also pluck their abdomen, I know some species of finch will do this reportedly to get a better 'feel' of the egg whilst they incubate. It has happened to me in regard of Bengalese in particular but I have only ever seen it once with a Zebra Finch hen. The back plucking is more likely to be perpetrated by the partner of the balding bird, males taking advantage of a broody hen sitting tightly have been known to pluck their backs and build and nice nest lining. I have not tried remedies for this as I have not noticed any harm being done by these types of plucking. I have tried supplying duck down and chicken feathers but with limited success. In general the areas grow back once breeding is complete and chicks are fledged and weaned."

[cindy]

I tried as suggested above getting a small inexpensive feather pillow and gave a pair some of the feathers. (the male pulled featers from the female's back between the wings, no nest box in the cage). Even though there was not place to build or nest the male seemed preoccupied with the feather, saw it as nesting material and played with it for a few days...it stopped the male from picking at the female. this may not work for all situations but it worked with this one pair.

I found the article interesting especially in regards to small feed cups and others wanting to eat at it, he witnessed tail pulling be others waiting their turn so he gave them a large plate instead.

[Rothe18]

http://zebrafinchsociety.co.uk/index.ph ... &Itemid=68

By chance are either of the two javas male?

Neither are male, I'm almost positive. They're not nesting, though they're reaching the age where they could. This is a very recent problem, within the past two weeks I started noticing it. Only one is plucking the other, around the head area, and especially in the area just over the tail, between the wings- not the tail itself.

Also, their food dish has a divider down the middle, so there are two separate cups- they never fight while eating there.

[flrancho]

I might try setting up some visual barriers so that one bird can get away from or hide from another if need be, something like plastic plants would be great.

As someone else said, they could be bored too. My first Java got quite destructive when he got bored. He'd wreck havoc on the flight and start chewing at the wood and mesh, would shred up and eat newspaper from under the flight, he'd take any food container in his cage that was light enough for him, pull it off the side of the cage, dump the contents and proceed to play with the food tray, tossing it around the cage. The flight now had two swings, a set of plastic rings with a bell, and a small loose brass bell on the bottom of the flight that can be picked up and tossed around. His destructive behavior has long since stopped.

Is amazing how playful Javas are, especially when they are young. They are like a parakeet or cockatiel trapped in a smaller birds body. If you don't have a lot of toys, I'd try giving them some more; I would think most parakeet toys would be suitable.

Also, if you can, watch and observe your birds. It can give you a clue on what is going on. Mine are usually quite vocal when they're mad at another bird.

[Rothe18]

(...I totally posted another longer answer before my last one, and it hasn't shown up...I wonder why...and now I can't remember what I wrote.)

My cage has a swing, a rope toy, a plastic ring toy, and a spinny toy attached to the wall- I just added their favorite shoelace thing that was on my table and they played with constantly. I'll try getting a plant- I wrote in that post that isn't here, is fake craft greenery ok, as long as there's no sparkles, scent, or tiny bits to be swallowed?? I have some other toys that I can switch in with what's there- maybe they don't like what they have?

They liked the rope toy at first, but I never see them play with it now...so, I'm not sure. I'll try.

Interesting that nobody is saying "separate them"...?

[Diana]

Well, I am the one who would suggest to separate your javas and that is because I had a similar problem with mine. I bought them at 6 months old and after a while the male started to beat up the female. They also fly around my room so at least she could run away but when in the cage the morning would start with a fight. I bought them a bigger cage but they did not like it. They were scared and would only sit on one perch. After a day the beatings started again so I decided to move my zebras in the big cage and separate the javas in the smalk ones. Now the girl is no longer stressed and they can see each other which offers her comfort-he is not bothered- and they still meet outside when they fly. So separating them really helped.

[Zebrafincher]

I agree, separating is the best thing. I have my male finches and my male canary all in separate cages. They all can see and hear eachother and seem to be quite happy. I had one of my Zebbies (female) in with my star finch in a large cage earlier - but they fought so they had to be placed in separate cages.

[Rothe18]

Ah, well, there we go. The thing is, the plucked one sticks to the other one like glue outside the cage, only dodging slightly to avoid being picked at.

They grew up together, both girls like I said. I got them at 1 month. I don't have a car, so I can't get to a pet store until the weekend when my boyfriend comes... they have to wait a while. My other problem is I don't have so much space in my tiny Japanese apartment, and I have no idea where
to put another cage. So at first, I'll have to try putting in more distractions... if that doesn't work, I'll do my bet about a new cage.

Diana, how long did you leave your birds in the bigger cage? Did you kinda wean them into it? I had a cockatiel whom I bought a bigger cage, but I didn't wean her to it well enough, and she had night panics in it which resulted in a bloody nose. I had to take her out of the new cage at night, and let her gradually get used to darkness coming while in it before she finally calmed down and got comfy. Maybe a bigger cage just needs more time?

[Zebrafincher]

Birds can also be stroppy about accepting new cages - and even inside things like perches. My canary, who is 11, was very upset the last time I got him a new cage (he went and sat up the back for 2 days and wouldn't talk). This time when I recently got him a new flight cage, I placed all the perches and toys in the same place as the other one and he was fine! Very happy bird! Just used to the same set-up

[Diana]

Diana, how long did you leave your birds in the bigger cage? Did you kinda wean them into it? I had a cockatiel whom I bought a bigger cage, but I didn't wean her to it well enough, and she had night panics in it which resulted in a bloody nose. I had to take her out of the new cage at night, and let her gradually get used to darkness coming while in it before she finally calmed down and got comfy. Maybe a bigger cage just needs more time?

I only let them in the big cage for a day. I even opened the door for them to fly out and they wouldn't do it but the 3 zebras flew in one by one and started eating their food lol. It was quite funny. The zebras did not seem to be bothered to take over the new cage. I put the javas back in the little ones, only each in a cage and everythign was fine. As we speak I am not home and I left them flying around the flat. I have both cages side by side and sometimes in the evening they try to beat each other up through the bars . Quite funny but less stressful for me as I don't have to worry they poke each others eyes out.

[flrancho]

They really need several days to get used to new things. I just added a landing to the flight for my handicapped Java. They're really upset. It's been three days and they're just now working on getting to the middle of the flight closer to where the landing is. They're convinced it's going to eat them. Many birds are funny like this. If you want to try the bigger cage again, you may need to let them get used to it for up to a week.