Building Genetic Diversity

[finchick]

I've been trying to keep my flock as genetically diverse as possible without having to have lots of birds, by re-pairing each year and trying to avoid being backed into a corner with my gene pool. In many cases, I will separate and re-pair after one clutch, assuming that more of the same is not going to help me move forward. I realize that it's not very efficient, however high production is not my interest here. I'd rather have one great bird, than five okay chicks.

Do most breeders do this? Or do you stick with a pair that produces nice chicks? There is always the other option of introducing new birds into the flock each year, but I'm trying to avoid that since my birds are healthy and there appears to be good vitality and size here. Moreover, I don't the space or time ~ and this is supposed to be a hobby.

Thanks.

[finchmix22]

I'm not sure what you mean by "re-pair" the finches; however, I'll have several unrelated pairs for breeding in one species. For example, I have four unrelated owl pairs. So, any offspring from the four different pairs, could be paired together to create a new unrelated pair. I"m not sure if that makes sense the way I wrote this, but let's say Baby 1 from Pair A is not related to baby 1 from pair B and so on.

[finchick]

What you wrote makes total sense. I should have been clearer.

I was trying to say that after each successful clutch, you could separate that pair and set them up with new mates ("re-pair"), so that you can create a different combination.

Now, I may not be making much sense... I'm trying to make the best of not having too many Gouldians, while increasing my options for combinations into the future.

[finchmix22]

I understand what you are trying to do. Any offspring will still be related, through the mother or father. For example,
HenA and Cock B have offspring AB
Hen C and Cock D have offspring CD
If you then pair HenA and Cock D and Hen C and Cock B, they produce offspring AD and CB.
So, you'd have to have a good family banding to keep half siblings from breeding to avoid weak finches. So, you could only pair offspring AB with offspring CD, because offspring AD and CB are still related. I'm not sure if this makes sense. Now, if you are not breeding the offspring and sell them, then you're fine.
It gets confusing. It took me quite a while to figure a way to track related offspring without having to put too many bands on them. Now, I use bicolored bands for offspring to tell them apart. Whew, it is a lot of thinking and working it out. Good Luck with your gouldians.

[Nerien]

If you are shuffling pairs around, you are not creating or maintaining genetic diversity, you are reducing it.

Suppose you have males A, C, E, G and females B, D, F, H

Dad A with Mom B makes chicks who are AB
Dad C with Mom D makes chicks who are CD
Dad E with Mom F makes chicks who are EF
Dad G with Mom H makes chicks who are GH

Chicks AB, CD, EF, and GH are completely unrelated

Now re-pair:
Dad C with Mom B makes chicks who are CB
Dad E with Mom D makes chicks who are ED
Dad G with Mom F makes chicks who are GF
Dad A with Mom H makes chicks who are AH

Now, Chicks AB are closely related, half-siblings to Chicks AH and CB, (and these half-siblings share original parents A, B, C, and H.)
Chicks CD are related to Chicks CB, and ED, (and these half-siblings share original parents B, C, D, E.)
Chicks EF are related to Chicks ED and GF, (and these half-siblings share original parents D, E, F, G.)
Chicks GH are related to Chicks GF and AH, (and these half-siblings share original parents A, F, G, H.)
Chicks AH are related to Chicks AB and GH (and these half-siblings share original parents A, B, G, H.)
Chicks CB are related to Chicks CD and AB, (and these half-siblings share original parents A, B, C, D.)
Chicks ED are related to Chicks EF and CD, (and these half-siblings share original parents C, D, E, F.)
Chicks GF are related to Chicks GH and EF, (and these half-siblings share original parents E, F, G, H.)

So now instead of four unrelated lines, you have 8 lines, but each is directly, closely related to two other lines, and each half-sibling grouping actually shares 4 of the original 8 parents (count the letters).

Reshuffle for another clutch, and most everybody is half-sibling to someone else, half-brothers and half-sisters. And that's all within the same generation. Breed these first offspring, and the next generation combines more bloodlines--if you put AB chick with CD chick, their offspring are ABCD, so they have half the gene lines in your flock.

If you keep really careful, meticulous records, and plan carefully, this could work, but the chances of quickly having everyone related to everyone else, are really high.

[finchmix22]

Nerien, I agree. That is why I keep four pairs of unrelated Owls. Then, all offspring are unrelated. I can pair offspring CD to offspring AB to sell as an unrelated pair. I don't keep the offspring, but I'm trying to sell unrelated pairs.

If I kept the offspring it would be hard to keep related finches apart to avoid inbreeding, so I sell them. In fact, I keep meticulous records on all finches I buy or breed, to make sure they are not related as much as it is possible.

When I bought parrot finches, I checked with each breeder to make sure they had not shared bloodlines with the other breeder's stock that I was buying parrot finches from. It took a lot of patience and checking where breeder A bought their original stock, to ensure breeder B did not have their original stock from someone who purchased from the same stock. We could go on and on, but we can only check back so far and some breeders do not keep great records. If that was the case, I would not buy from those breeders since I could not ensure unrelated bloodlines.

[finchick]

Thanks Nerien and Deborah: That illustration is really helpful. I think part of the problem I'd create for myself is that I'd get into a corner faster since I was going to eventually do all these combination and permutations eventually. Instead of having to wait two years for two combinations, I'm getting those same two combinations in one year. If the stock is getting better, then it might be forward progress; if the stock is not getting better, than I'm backing myself into a corner with nothing to show for it, except lots of baby Gouldians, which is not what I breed for.

I really like your term reshuffle better than re-pairing, which sounds more like I'm trying to fix something by repairing...

There's a lot here to think about.