foster preparation

[ac12]

I think the difference is the gouldian chicks will die from C&C whereas the zebra chick might survive. At least that is what my impression from feedback of others on this forum. But the Avian Medicine book indicates that zebras are also vulnerable to C&C from the fosters. Confusing.

The real test is to have them foster a gouldian chick and see if it survives from hatchling to past weaning. So when you have a gouldian clutch hatch, put a couple of the hatchlings into the societies nest, and have the societies foster the chicks.

I actually question the breeder testing his flock for C&C every year. From reports by others on the forum the test runs $100-300 per bird !!! If he is having his flock tested every year, I would like to know how, as that would be an option to some of us.

BTW I use zebra chicks to test if my societies will foster. Then if they raise the chick to weaning, my next step is to determine if the societies are "clean." I do this by having them raise a gouldian chick to weaning. I would love to do just one foster testing.

[cindy]

Gary, most of the articles I have seen and posted are written by or with a vet/doctor.

I wonder if he has throat cultures done, swab and prepare a slide.

http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/features_canker.php

this may help Gary...

http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/produc ... hcombo.php

[nixity]

I don't think Zebras are as reliable a test subject (a morbid term, I'm sure) as the Gouldians, because Zebras are much hardier in my opinion.

Also - with C&C in Societies, this isn't something that can be "dormant" and then later pop up due to stress, the issue with these two diseases and Societies is that they simply are not affected by it at all.

The whole thing is that they are, for all intents and purposes, immune to the organisms, so the only way to know they have it is to either have an avian vet test them (and I don't know if they can test for Campy but I think they can for Coch) or test them by letting them attempt to foster.

That's all me and Debbie are saying - treating them in quarantine is one thing but it won't necessarily eradicate either of these diseases, so medicating them in prep for fostering isn't the answer. The answer is to let them foster and if you lose your chicks, scrap the birds immediately.

That's if you even need fosters, but what you can always do is just give them one or two eggs from the first clutch of Goulds (use 3 fake eggs to make a complete clutch) and just see what happens. You might not need them to foster, but this is how you can test them to make sure they are clean.

When Gary says separate food and water dishes, I'd be clear here and say DO NOT house them with Gouldians AT ALL.
I never housed my societies with anything other than other societies, even if I knew they were clean.

[L in Ontario]

The answer is to let them foster and if you lose your chicks, scrap the birds immediately.

I never housed my societies with anything other than other societies, even if I knew they were clean.

Just to clarify although I'm sure everyone knows "scrap" only means re-home the birds.

Why do you never house your socs with any other variety of finch - particularly if you know 100% that they are 'clean'?

[nixity]

Just to clarify although I'm sure everyone knows "scrap" only means re-home the birds.

Why do you never house your socs with any other variety of finch - particularly if you know 100% that they are 'clean'?

Yes - re-home, or simply retire the birds from a "fostering" situation
And I don't have a really good answer for that other than peace of mind, not to mention I felt it was best to keep them separated from the birds they'd potentially fostered to prevent any accidental bonding or imprinting.

[Mozelle]

Trish - this is a great and informative thread. Thank you for bringing this up!
There are always differing thoughts and solutions - I love that this thread is bringing up both sides. The more information.. the better!

[ac12]

I keep my societies in their own cage so I can control the fostering and the societies.

If you have more than 2 societies in a cage, they will all crown into ONE nest, mine did. So I do not think you will be able to foster 2 clutches in 2 nests at once. Because of this behavior, my societies are spread in multiple cages. Oh I also keep the M separate from the F, to control unplanned population growth.

I remove the juveniles from the fosters as soon as they are weaned to minimize the imprinting problem. I had a test zebra that I kept with the societies too long and he called and sang like a society. None of the other zebras would respond to his call.

About the food and water containers. I mix up the egg+veggie dishes between cages. I also use one bottle brush to clean all the water tubes, which is probably not a good idea, as it would transfer anything from one water tube to the others. It is this that you would want to separate.

For my inbound societies in extended quarantine (until they are tested clean), I keep EVERYTHING separate in a separate bathroom, and I feed or work on their cages after I feed/work on the others to reduce accidentally taking anything to the flock.

[6finchfriends]

I agree this is a very helpful load of information! I want to thank everyone for responding! I like hearing how everyone takes care of their birds and are so passionate about it. Now I can figure out a way that also works well for me.
I ordered- Pet Focus - Concentrate 1 quart makes 32 gallons for cleaning the cages etc.
Wormaway2 - Worm Away - Water Soluble one dose avian wormer
- coccicare -
- probiotics -
-ronex12- -

Now I can put the birds I have through a quarantine procedure I feel better knowing I'm doing what should have been done when I first got them. There is more I'd like to get but this is all the budget afforded right now.
(thanks for explaining 'scrap'.)
Because there just aren't any Gouldians around here even after searching and searching, Misty has generously offered to send me some of her eggs when her pairs start to lay and it's cool enough to send them. Everyone is so unselfish and kind on the FF! So after talking to the breeder I got my finches from I'm 99% sure they are clean. They've never been around any other birds. But I wanted to make sure my Societies went through a quarantine before I recieved the eggs/or bought any new birds at the bird fair. I'm so glad everyone responded with such good ideas. After reading everyone's experiences with Gouldians and other articles online I would prefer not to interfere in the learning process that a pair of young Gouldians go through to learn parenting. I would rather go through a couple of tossed clutches, heartbreaking as that is, in order to have parent raised chicks. I do think it's the best thing for everyone since I've learned that parent raises chicks make better parents themselves. However since I will be needing a foster to begin with I wanted to make sure they are as healthy as can be. FF is the best and so are all of you out there helping me out!

[ac12]

Trish
That is how I got started with gouldians.
Tiffany sent me some eggs, and now I'm hooked bad.
3 of the egg hatched and from those 3 hens I have 10 that made it past weaning.

gud luk with the gouldian addiction