Listerine and/or Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV)?

[dan78]

Well very interesting to hear peoples replies on the subject. To understand that algae is a living organism and such as all living organisms there is good and bad, Green algae is what I normally have in the dish but if a red to pink colour starts is definitely time to clean bowl. If I'm correct algae is related to seaweed that's food for thought.
Cindy the answer is yes and no some finches try and scrape some of the algae off the sides while others don't even worry about it. Is it good for them I don't really know as I'm not a person that can/does research (a person of science) but i would guess that if i could grow it where it may cover the water instead of growing on the sides then i may find a result worth talking about but that much algae may become dangerous with to many organisms.
As stated by Dayna that if living conditions are kept completely sanitary then problems will arise once given/sold to somebody else which doesn't keep these conditions or if they some how slack off in their hygiene practices ,i beleive that good hygine practices are important but not going to the extreme as alittle bit of mess is good to help their immunesystem fight against certain bugs which they will encounter. If hygine is very sterile like in hospitals will birds contract a super bug like us humans can get?. Sorry to slide off topic.
Now for ACV i like to use the organic version so would this be considered as a chemical, I've never really thought of it like that.

[dan78]

Lou, I have read on average that a wild finch has a life expectancy of approx 4-5 years, this is based on average conditions with food going in and out of season so nature takes its course( survival of the fittest). Now for captive, average life span for finches rises to 6-7 years and breeding stops at around 4-5 years so there's some thought that we as aviculturists must be doing something right, I had a painted male last nearly 9 years of age he died in the winter of last year.
Now all this talk about algae growing in water doesn't mean that people should start leaving water out so algae can grow so finches can have some to try as I don't know how good/bad your water is and unfortunately a bad algae my grow so its up to each individual to do what they wish to. This is a thong which I have done over years and some birds will take to it where others may not.
As for getting new birds all are quarantined with boiled water for the first week and gradually placed on to tap. When placed in aviery after quarantine I watch for any signs that water may be upsetting them and if so then I place them in a cage so I can administer probiotics to get there gut back into shape. I have forgotten to mention a crucial part that the water is placed in 3 containers, 2 of which are sitting on the wire which are the ones which I don't clean every day but do refill and I have a refillable container on the floor which is always clean, the two on the wire are the main supply which they drink and bath in and the one on the floor I've only ever seen being used is when parents are feeding fledged young on the floor.

[cindy]

Dan, it is good you remove the pink discoloration from the dishes, it is a airborne bacteria called Serratia Marcescens. It thrives in dampness, like in showers. So I pretty sure the finches would not care to snack on it!!!

Personally...an this is my opinion ~ ACV is a chemical, so is water. Maybe the terms should be additives, then look at the additives and the ingredients that make it up. Take Listerine is is made up of active and inactive ingredients...I look at the warnings in regards to use on children, swallowing it, long term use of the product. I try to look at it this way, it is strongly recommended for humans not to ingest Listerine so is it alright for my birds.

I do realize that most are not giving this full strength (very diluted, a drop) to their birds but it is still being ingested by creatures smaller in size than us and whose metabolism is so very different than ours. I also look at the individul ingredients...active and non active. Are these readily passed through the body or are they absorbed by the body and stored in body tissue over time. I also consider the fact that often some of these products contain dyes (carmel) and alcohol...there mouthwashes out there that are alcohol and dye free but they still contain germ killing agents.

I also have to ask is it more important for me to have a sterile cup of water for my birds vs what is actually being ingested. We have additives in our water systems all read, plus running them through a filter helps.

We have tough choices to make when it comes to caring and assuming responsibility for animals/birds that depend on us for they existance/survival. These are personal choices for each of us but ones that we need to examine and weigh carefully.

These are the ingredients within Listerine:

Eucalyptol 0.092%, Menthol 0.042%, Methyl salicylate 0.060%, Thymol 0.064%, alcohol (26.9%), benzoic acid, poloxamer 407, sodium benzoate, caramel (I plan on talking about this topic with my father at the end of the week and get his insight on it)

To learn how listerine works in the human mouth
http://www.listerine.com/products-how-d ... erine-work

The same holds true with AVC, you must decide if this will work for you and your birds....

Here is very good in depth article in regards to ACV...
http://www.webmd.com/diet/apple-cider-vinegar

I do go back in forth about using ACV and plain water. I find on the rushed weeks like the ones I have had recently that adding AVC to the water tubes in case my day ran long I could not change them out until morning....it gave me a peace of mind that the finches will be fine until I could tend to them.

[DanteD716]

Guys, I plan on trying ACV, I usually give plain water from the tap, but they seek to love! (I also love our water) I helieve ot is hard water? That is what it is called? Hard or acidic? Anyways, I want to add ACV, to try. How shoukd I add it over time or just change it all together?

[cindy]

I would offer a cup of water with ACV and a separate water cup of the water they are use to. You need to make sure they like to drink the ACV water not just bathe in it. I mentioned my lavenders will not go near it so they get plain water

[DanteD716]

Ok, thanks Cindy, how much per. gallon?

[Pukasand]

Guys, I plan on trying ACV, I usually give plain water from the tap, but they seek to love! (I also love our water) I helieve ot is hard water? That is what it is called? Hard or acidic? Anyways, I want to add ACV, to try. How shoukd I add it over time or just change it all together?

When I started my birds on ACV, I only used a few drops per quart. I gradually increased it. Now I use about a scant teaspoon per gallon.
At first my birds were adverse to it, but came around.
As Cindy suggests, offer them both plain water and ACV water.
I still do that. Plain water in their water tubes, ACV water in their bath.

[lou]

My tubes are filled with water 1/3 up, this forces me to change the water often, I place the empty tubes in a bucked filled with water and bleach over night, rinsed with clean water and left to dry. This done every time I give fresh /additives water to my birds
lou

[cindy]

Ok, thanks Cindy, how much per. gallon?

1 Tblspoon per gallon or 1 drop per 8 oz cup. For me since my birds are in the other room, I pull cups and put them I a rubbermaid container, drain off the dirty water or dump the ACV water (there is some discussion that mixing vinegar and bleach can release a toxic as...I'll look into it more I believe it pertains to white vinegar)....I soak the tubes, dishes in a bleach and hot water for 15 minutes since the vet said that is what is reguired to kill off germs, rinse and dry over night.

I fill two one gallon jugs with filtered water, add the AVC, shake and pour!

[CandoAviary]

My tubes are filled with water 1/3 up, this forces me to change the water often, I place the empty tubes in a bucked filled with water and bleach over night, rinsed with clean water and left to dry. This done every time I give fresh /additives water to my birds
lou

That's my method also. though I fill the tubes. Here at the shop I put in a three compartment stainless steel sink so I could soak and drain the bleach water easier...lately I have been using oxyfresh to soak.
With the plastic bottom trays, I alsways have extra too, they are dropped into large tubs to soak, rinsed and air dried so I can always swap out a dirty for a clean.

[cindy]

The swap out method works great especially with a busy schedule.

[lou]

You know what would be really nice is if I could find a small dishwasher to put in my bird shed--- like 3/4 the size or smaller than the standard ones.
lou

[cindy]

You should see if you can find a small apartment size one that rolls and hooks up to the sink, top loader. We had one years ago. My parents and grandmother had one that rolled over to the sink, it was a monster though!

[CandoAviary]

Maybe one of those dishwashing drawers

[lou]

The power of the forum--- thanks
lou