toe flexing, standing on one leg, puffed up

[kesea]

Hi Fellow Finch Lovers,

I was wondering if anyone has seen these symptoms in a Gouldian Finch before? She has tucked her head under her wing a few times during the day today to sleep, and I noticed at one point she was flexing the toes on both her feet over and over again. Then later in the day, I noticed she was sitting on a perch on one leg only, was puffed up, shaking a bit, with the toes on her standing foot repeatedly flexing. I took her to the vet but the avian specialist was not in. The vet that saw her said there were no obvious fractures in her foot, but it did seem weaker than the other foot. Does anyone more experienced with finches know what the foot flexing might be due to?

Thanks.

[MiaCarter]

I'm sorry to hear about your girl!

I don't know if it's any help, but I have seen something similar to this in a conure.
It was actually due to a soft tissue injury further up on the leg where all the muscles are located.
The vet explained it to me like this: The injury had caused inflammation to the muscles in the upper portion of the leg. This triggered spasms that affected the nerves and tendons that operate the lower part of the leg, causing the foot to flex and contract at random.

There wasn't huge swelling visible. You couldn't really see much until the vet pulled back the feathers around the upper portion of the leg/hip area and I saw that it wasn't fluff, but swelling.

It was an injury that just took time to heal -- a week or so?

This was a larger bird, and while the basic mechanics are pretty similar, they're not the same. I suppose something similar could be happening with your guy.
But this was only one foot, not both. Seems unlikely both could be injured, but you did say one was worse than the other?

I know you can end up with odd foot problems when you have only 1 size of perch, but I'm not too well versed on whether this is one of the things that can occur? I'm sure the finch gurus will have much more insight!

[Sally]

I would provide her with heat for now. You can set a lamp with a 60w bulb near one end of the cage, pointed at a perch. This way, she can sit near the lamp for warmth, but she needs to be able to move away from the heat if it gets too warm. If she is not better soon, you might want to check with the avian vet. Puffy often means not feeling well.

[MiaCarter]

Oh, just another thought....
I know you mentioned that at least one of her feet seemed weak.
Some birds can have problems with grasping the perch if they're deficient in D3. Their muscles can get weak to the point where they can't perch properly. So maybe that's something to research.

But definitely agreed with Sally. I'd get her warmed up in a hospital cage and supplied with lots of good food, supplements, lots of peace and quiet and so on.

Hope she's feeling better soon!

[kesea]

Thanks a lot for all your comments, I really appreciate them, and they sound applicable to my situation. It's good to know that the flexing could potentially due to inflammation. MiaCarter, I do have many perch sizes, from a wooden dowel on a swing she sleeps on, two cement pedi-perches she doesn't use very often (I could position them better), and the cage I have is the Hagen vision which is supposedly designed with perches that prevent foot problems. She definitely spends most of her time on the wooden dowel swing because she sleeps a long time at night, if there is something I can do to make it more foot-friendly I'd love to know. Maybe cover it with material to soften it? I have only had her a little over a week and for the last four days or so I have been supplementing with Prime, since I figured with some research that she is molting and I learned that she needs more vitamins during this time since it is stressful.

Sally, that is a really great tip with the 60W light!!! I was wondering if she might be cold and had read about using a heating pad but I don't own one. That might have been the best thing to do as first-aid. But I was concerned about the foot flexing and standing on one leg so I figured best to take her in to see if there was a fracture or break. I hope taking her to the vet didn't cause more harm and stress than good. Her cage mate is an owl finch and usually he/she sleeps in a maize peel bird nest but last night he/she stayed by his side on the swing for a long time, and ended up sleeping in some plastic foliage nearby instead of going into her nest. So he/she seems concerned about her buddy. The pet store told me the gouldian was a girl and the owl was a boy, but I figured they got it wrong after some research and noticing that the owl's bib is "dirty" compared to his face, and he is much smaller than the female gouldian. After seeing the owl's concern I am wondering if the pet store got it right after all.

Hopefully my gouldian will be looking much better tomorrow. If not, it's great that I have an appointment to see the avian vet tomorrow just in case.

kesea

[MiaCarter]

Hi Kesea.
If they're just days out of the pet shop, it's possible you're still seeing some effects from their time there. Many pet shops don't care for their birds well at all, plus, it's often a very stressful environment, often with over-crowded cages. Just a recipe for stress and injury.

So while you may be feeding her well and supplementing and doing everything right, she could still be dealing with residual problems from her time with the pet shop. (e.g. if she was in a pet shop and got a plain seed diet and no natural sunlight, she could very well be low in vitamin D3, which can cause muscle weakness and problems gripping the perch.)

I'd definitely take her to the vet if she isn't looking better this morning.
I would also call the pet shop and explain the situation. Many of the nicer shops will often reimburse your vet bills if the bird is sick within that health guarantee period or they may ask you to go to their avian vet where they put your bill on tab. (So you don't pay anything; it gets charged to the shop.)
You're in luck that she's a gouldian and not a "disposable" bird like a society or zebra. Pet shops are more willing to "fix" a pricier animal with vet care, whereas with less expensive birds, they're viewed as more disposable and some shops will often just insist on giving you a new one and goodness knows what happens to the sick/injured one.

[kesea]

She has improved from last night in that she is standing on both legs more and only doing the toe flexing occasionally. Still not very active though, and still a bit puffy. I have a light near a perch and have moved some food up there so it's easier to access. I will keep a very close eye on her today and as long as she stays the same or continues to improve, I think I'll keep her home, as the drive and handling was really stressful for her yesterday. That, and the vet's office was absolutely freezing...

[kesea]

And sad to hear that some birds are considered disposable by the pet stores. They mentioned that my gouldian had been there for two weeks, so no sunlight for at least that long. I'm sure it doesn't take long for a small bird to become deficient in nutrients. Making sure she gets lots of natural light (not direct sunlight) and she has been drinking the Prime supplement mixed with water in a silo feeder.

[kesea]

Just thought I'd post an update. We saw an avian vet who said it was likely a soft tissue injury, or that our bird was getting too many vitamins. We were using fortified seed as well as Prime. He gave us antibiotics just in case. I don't think it was bacterial because our bird started improving before we started the antibiotics. The warmth from the light really seemed to help and we have stopped using prime since we are using fortified seed and egg pellets.

[MiaCarter]

Well that's good news!
I'm happy to hear she's feeling better!

If it's a soft tissue injury, that would absolutely make sense that she's doing better with the heat because it's always soothing for a pulled muscle or other soft tissue injuries. If she still seems really attracted to the heat, you might consider putting a heating pad on low in her cage (you'll need to cover it with a washable pillow case and paper towels.). She may enjoy that too. The heat opens up the blood vessels and capillaries, allowing for more blood flow to the injured area, which speeds healing.

That's curious about the possibility of too many vitamins. I've never heard of that causing those symptoms. (But I know the opposite -- a deficiency -- can cause those symptoms). Did he mention a specific nutrient that he thought could be to blame?