Red Cheeked Cordons Laid Eggs and now Fighting

[shakrooph]

Hello Everybody,

My name is Sinan. Though I have been using the info website for a while, this is my first time in the forum. I made a lot of search and found some answers but somehow couldn't find the exact explanation for the situation I wrote below.

We have been sharing our apartment with a pair of red cheeked cordon bleus for the past 6 months We got them from different pet stores but they were both very young at that time. They have a cage but it is always open so they fly around freely and go back in just to feed.

We also placed a nest high above our eyeline so that someday they could nest and lay eggs peacefully. This finally happened roughly 16-17 days ago. At first we saw that they started going and staying in the nest but somehow occasionally the female was chasing the male away.

Later they started taking shifts in the nest so we figured the incubation began. For 2 weeks we didn't do anything to disturb their peace.

But as it past 14 days we got curious and slightly concerned about the situation of the eggs. So we decided to use the phone to check inside briefly. I reached above and tried to film inside which eventually disturbed the female. She fled out and yelled at the male and chased him off.

Things seemed to have turned back to normal shortly after that incident and they continued their shifts. However since yesterday (day 15-16) the fights have increased and I see that both of them leave the nest unattended for short periods. One of them eventually goes back inside. The male also goes in but I feel like they are slightly spooked. The female still stayed in the entire night as usual.
I should also mention that this is their first time laying eggs.

We provide them variety of seeds and fresh egg food, fruit mixes, dry insect & worm mixes etc. I don't see any physical abnormalities in them except the fact that the lady makes 1 huge poop in the mornings

I'm worried if we made anything to scare them and stop parenting.
Please provide me feedback. I tried to check all the posts but if I missed a possible answer then kindly let me know. I will post updates below.

I wish you all fellow finch lovers a great day.

[Sally]

Congrats on getting your pair of Red-cheeked Cordon Bleus to go to nest, they are not easy. Are you feeding any live food, such as mini mealworms, fruit flies, or frozen pinkies? This species usually requires live food to raise babies, unless this pair was raised without live food themselves. Once they have been raised without live food themselves, they often will go on to raise babies without it, but not always.

Most waxbills don't tolerate nest checks very much, if at all. Did you see anything when you looked with your phone? Incubation for CBs is about 12 days, and then the babies fledge after about 18-20 more days, and then they will take up to 21 days to wean. When you see the large poop from the hen, that is because she holds it for long periods of time while she is incubating. Once the eggs hatch, it takes at least 3 days before you might hear the babies begging.

Red-cheeked Cordon Bleus are very protective of their nest, and they will make a staccato call that is a warning to all to stay away from their nest--this is very distinctive and noticeable. The hen may be chasing the male because she wants him to go in the nest while she is out, and he hasn't gone in there quick enough to suit her.

I also provide protein (growing babies need LOTS of protein) by offering egg food. You can either offer dry commercial egg food, or I prefer to hard-boil eggs, mash them up shell and all, and then add a little dry commercial egg food to dry them out a bit. If you can find freeze-dried bloodworms, such as sold in pet shops as fish food, they are very high in protein, and most waxbills like them to feed to their babies. You have to mix them in with egg food or some other soft food, as they are very lightweight and will blow all over the cage.

Please keep us posted on your pair. As I've said, RCCBs are very difficult to breed, so good luck with it. And welcome to the forum! There's lots of good reading at www.finchinfo.com, where you will find many articles on breeding and general finch care, especially the Cordon Bleu. If you put your general location in your profile, it makes it easier to answer locale-specific questions later on.

[shakrooph]

Hi Sally,

Thank you very much for taking time to write such a detailed reply. Everything you explained seems to fit the situation perfectly.

So yesterday I came home when it was dark. I found them both sleeping in the nest. Later they both got out and started hanging out like before the incubation began. Occasionally they flew over and perched above the nest, looked inside but never got in.

At night they slept outside perching over the lamp as they used to do before.

At our first attempt with the camera we failed to see anything. Since they look like they don't care about the nest anymore we tried once more this morning. I didn't touch the nest but I tried to look from different angels and we failed to see anything again. There is a small dark corner which we can't see but it is not very likely that they hid anything there. This time when we tried to look, they didn't care at all and they kept eating.

This seems a bit odd because I don't think that at this point they could break and consume their eggs as it is already 2 weeks past. They definitely didn't toss anything outside. Could they act like incubating like a rehearsal?

They were very small when we got them and I'm pretty sure they never had any live food. We give them fresh egg food almost everyday. I mash hard boiled eggs and also give broken egg shells at the side. They eat the shells up like crackers.

We tried many different fresh fruits and vegetables but they didn't really like them. Perhaps we are not doing it correctly. However they love to eat fruit mix we got from a pet store. It is slightly moist. Similarly they like to eat dried insect mix.

I will try the egg food formula you suggested and also check for the bloodworms.

Shall I clear inside the nest and provide nest material again so that they could start over?

Cheers,

[lovezebs]

shakrooph

Hello Sinan
I really hope that things will work out alright with your Cordons.
I have heared, that they are difficult to breed, so this is a good start for them, even if this first clutch doesn't hatch. At least you know that they are willing to breed and lay eggs for you.

At present, I have three females, and hope to get them mates in the near future. I will definitely be keeping close attention to how things are going with your pair, so please keep posting and let us know what works and what doesn't work.

Wishing you good luck.

~Elana~

[Sally]

Even though incubation is about 12 days, I always wait an extra week before removing/inspecting the nest. This is in case my calculations are off. Finches often will seem like they are incubating, when they are just in the nest, but not sitting tight, and incubation doesn't start till they really hunker down on those eggs. I should add that I try not to do nest checks on my waxbills. Most waxbills aren't tolerant of nest checks, and they will abandon very quickly if they think their nest is in any kind of danger. With waxbills, you often have to sit back and wait it out, hard as that is. I can't tell you how many times I have waited that three weeks, only to be disappointed when I finally find a clutch of infertile eggs or dead babies, but waiting pays off when you hear those first tiny begging sounds!

There are several possibilities. They could have hatched out those eggs and have live babies tucked back in that corner. CB babies are quite dark, so not always easy to see in the nest. Or they could have eaten the eggs some time ago. Or the eggs could have been infertile and the parents have now given up on them. Or they could have dead babies back in the corner, though they usually will toss dead babies fairly quickly. The final possibility is that there never were any eggs this time, they were just going through the motions, though finches don't usually rehearse breeding, they go ahead and do it and learn as they go.

After another week, if there is no sign of babies, then I would clean out the nest and give them fresh nesting material. Since they are young, it may take them a try or two to get it right. Don't get discouraged, these guys can be quite difficult to breed and they will try your patience, but if you can get a pair to raise one clutch successfully, they will usually go on to raise many more clutches for you.

[shakrooph]

Sally thank you once again for the message.
@lovezebs Nice to meet you Elena. I hope you find suitable mates for your ladies I will try to inform you as much as I can.

After the pair abandoned the previous nest I talked about above, they became highly interested in another spare nest we had in their cage. The one that they were incubating before was outside the cage.

So I put extra nest material for the male to work on the nest. He started right away and they also began mating. We were away for the weekend and when we came back on Sunday evening we saw that the nest was already well prepared.

Beginning from Monday (9th) we have been observing them taking shifts for incubation as before.

They are not really afraid of us but always cautious due to their nature and perhaps because they are very tiny compared to us. That is why we are trying to be extra careful when cleaning their drinking water and replacing food inside the cage. Female is usually very calm but the male is rather jumpy and today he fled the cage briefly only to be grilled by the female and then go back inside right away. It is the end of the 3rd day now and so far things are going well. Perhaps it is a good idea to move the food out temporarily.

I guess we are really lucky to have a pair of red cheeks who -though not successful yet- are very active breeders.

The apartment is always warm and their cage is always open. They walk on the ground or fly around freely whole day as they like. They are very curious and confident as they go and inspect anywhere they can. They are particularly interested in the kitchen so we try to keep knives and any kind of other potential hazards away.

Whenever we get close to them our they perch somewhere near us, we talk to them in a soft voice.

They tend to be more cautious when we have guests but there is not much noise, walking around or prying to make them feel threatened.

Both male and female like to sing so we think they are very relaxed.

I wanted share these because we feel that these conditions help our birds live comfortably and feel secure enough to try breeding.

Have a great day.

Sinan

[finchmix22]

shakrooph
Welcome to the forum! I had a pair of rccbs who were very productive with producing fertile eggs and live hatchlings; however, they would feed, toss or feed then stop feeding and so all 8 hatchlings died. I tried hand feeding some that were abandoned, but they were too young and tiny and didn't make it. rccbs need a higher protein content and survive better if the parents feed the hatchlings. My pair only successfully raised one baby to weaning. Good Luck with your pair.