Whats the difference?

[JRs Gouldians]

Hey guys. So one of my recently purchased blues someone said looks like a pestle blue. My question to you guys is whats the difference between pestle blues, dilute blues, and just regular blue backs? I know with greens if you get a dilute *I think* it means that it is either split to blue, or split to yellow? (correct?) And for yellow's I'm not entirely positive on what a dilute yellow is? (and I don't know think there is a pestle yellow. Right?) Just hoping to get some of this lingo down as I now have some new colors. I know there is a lot to learn with single factor's and double factors, and things along those lines. Maybe if some of you have links to other discussions or have links to sites that may help, or even your own expert advice I would greatly appreciate it. I'll post a better pic of my pestle blue back in a bit and maybe someone will be able to tell me fore sure if hes a pestle or just a blue back thanks!

[debbie276]

The best place to learn about genetics is right on the Finch Information Center. Go to this page: http://www.finchinfo.com/genetics/lady_ ... /index.php and you will be able to go to specific pages (head, breast and body) about the genetics of gouldians. The page your looking for to learn about "pastel" is the body color inheritance page: http://www.finchinfo.com/genetics/lady_ ... colors.php Scroll down till you see "pastel"

If you need further explanation feel free to ask, but this should give you a starting point.

Pastels are also called SFYellowBlue and/or SF Pastel Blue depending on who your talking to.

[CandoAviary]

simple genetic

Start with a green back bird. Green on the back and black around the head and bib.
breed with a yellow back bird and the offspring will be
single factor aka SF (single pastel is the term used aroung the world...pastel means yellow gene)
If the SF has a purple breast then the back will be a diluted green and around the head and bib will be grey...also called a dilute green.
If the SF has a white or lilac breast then the bird is a SF yellow...with a lemon/lime yellow back and blue aroung the head and bib.
If you bred 2 yellows, SF, dilute or DF together you could get double factor yellows. (DF pastel green or DFyellow) These birds will be bright yellow on the back with white around the head and bib.

Start with a Blue back bird. Back is blue with black around the head and bib.
One factor of yellow (SF pastel BB) and you have a pastel blue. Bird will have lighter blue back with grey around the head and bib. If the breast is purple then the bird's back will be darker... if the breast is white or lilac the birds back will be even lighter blue to gray. The head and bib will be bluish to grey. These lighter colored birds are called SF Silvers.
A DF blue (DF pastel Blue) are called Silvers. Purple breast and the lilac and white breast will all carry a white back with white around the head and bib.

These only describe the males as females are always SF. They only need one factor of pastel to show that color...where males need 2 to show the colors...when the males get only one factor they will always be a dilute color (called on a green back) or a pastel color (diluted form of the blue bird)

It is much simpler to comprehend if the worldwide term of pastel is used. Here in the states there are so many descritive terms that it makes confusion easy.

A gouldian forcasting program helps and here is a free one on line. You can put any color gouldian (once you know what you have ) in and it will tell you the possible offsprings you will have.
Remeber though just because your bird may look like a green back it may be split for blue....you won't know unless you are furnished the genetic records by the breeder or you breed and happen to have a blue chick. The same goes with breast colors... your purple breast could be split for white breast or lilac breast. Happy learning of the wonderful mutations of these gouldians. It is one of the things I enjoy most about them
http://www.amadinagouldove.cz/gouldian- ... e/english/

[JRs Gouldians]

So do you guys think you could help clear up what my new guys are? After posting a few quick pics some people said my blue was a pestle blue, and what I thought was a YB-Split to GB someone said was just a YB. Here are some better pics of them, hopefully you guys could clarify them for me.

Pestle blue back?





Yellow back? Yellow Split to Green back? Green split to Yellow?






If you guys need I can take more pics let me know your thoughts!

[L in Ontario]

RH,PB,Blue back male (not pastel).
BH,PB,Single Factor Yellow back male.

Below is a couple of pics of my blue and pastel males. Pastels will have grey around the face and under the chin instead of the black of normal blues, etc.

Edit: I'm going to change my mind on the yellow male. I think it could be a LB.

[debbie276]

It's very hard to tell from pictures of the backs. If the chin is grey then it is a "pastel" or SFYellowBlue, meaning it has one yellow gene and 2 blue genes. The Yellow bird looks like a DFYellow, a SFYellow Purple Breasted bird would be visually green AKA "dilute".

Nice looking birds!

[L in Ontario]

I think from the back it's easy to tell a SYF compared to the DFY male - it's in the BLUE collar. That shows it is a Single Factor Yellow. A double-factor yellow would have a white collar.

And if it's a SFY then I would have to surmise it's a LB too otherwise it would show as a diluted green.

Now going to let everyone take a guess.

[debbie276]

JR,
If that's the same blue pictured in the "New Additions!!!" thread then I agree with Lea that it is a "pastel"

[JRs Gouldians]

I think your right Liz, but my gut is saying otherwise... Because you said they should have gray on their chin, and around the head. Here are a few more pics he definitely has gray under.

His back again.


His chin.


BH/PB/GB male's head shows the difference between the black and gray in this one.


Wish I could get a better focus shot on him. The camera just doesn't like him (or me) cant get him in focus.

JR,
If that's the same blue pictured in the "New Additions!!!" thread then I agree with Lea that it is a "pastel"

And yes it is the same Bird as in "New Additions."

[L in Ontario]

Nice shots! Okay I agree he is a pastel blue since he definitely has grey around his head and under the chin.

[JRs Gouldians]

Nice shots! Okay I agree he is a pastel blue since he definitely has grey around his head and under the chin.

Woohoo! Lol. Finally got shots that can confirm it. Heehee, I guess he is just a darker pastel? Because the ones that you posted Liz are amazing!

[nixity]

DF Yellows will not always have the "White" collar around the mask especially if they are purple breasted.
The Purple Breast tends to "Dirty Up" a yellow male.
(Whereas, Lilac or WB DF Yellow males have much cleaner yellow color as well as light collars)
The key factor is that a PURPLE breasted male that is YELLOW will always be DF.
That male is much too bright to be SF and the purple is much too dark to be Lilac.
If he was SF, as well, his head would be a much deeper charcoal color rather than the creamy beige that it appears.

I like to use my male Tang as an example because he has the "blue" collar but he comes from a DF Yellow Male and a Silver hen which means regardless of breast color the only thing he can be is DF..
This is why I don't like using the collar as the number 1 identification tool because it can be misleading.

[nixity]

PS: If it helps, there's no such thing as Yellow split for Green or Green split for Yellow
A bird is either SF Yellow or DF Yellow but never split ("Yellow" is codominant and expresses itself in some form if it is present meaning it is never hidden).

Females can only be "SF" and visually yellow.
RH PB Yellow hen:


BH WB Yellow Hen:


Males can be "SF" with a purple breast and because of the "Diluted" look are called "Dilutes" in the U.S.

Dilutes can vary from looking almost green with just a splash of yellow mixed in, like this guy:


To looking almost lemon-lime in color, like this guy:


But you can always pick them out because their bib and chin will be grey instead of black.


They can also be SF with a Lilac or White breast and appear visually yellow and these are usually referred to as "SF Yellows" in the U.S.

LB SF Yellow Male


Another LB SF Yellow:


WB SF Yellow Male


PB Males that are visually yellow (like Tang above) are always DF Yellow, and like this guy, who has a very clean yellow


And then there are also LB and WB DF Yellow Males:


I don't own any WB DF Yellows though

[JRs Gouldians]

Thanks Tiffany! So if they appear yellow they then are double factor. If its green with a splash of yellow then its a dilute, which is split for yellow correct? Which means that I do in fact have a DFYB.

[nixity]

Thanks Tiffany! So if they appear yellow they then are double factor. If its green with a splash of yellow then its a dilute, which is split for yellow correct? Which means that I do in fact have a DFYB.

If they appear yellow and they are visually purple breasted they are generally double factor (sometimes there are exceptionally light dilutes but they are still a very dirty looking yellow color and not clean/clear yellow).

A dilute is not "split" for yellow - a dilute is simply a single factor yellow, meaning the bird is carrying a single copy of the gene for yellow body color.
So a dilute is just "SF Yellow"

"Split" insinuates the trait is recessive or hidden (like SPLIT for blue, or SPLIT for white breast - there are no visual indicators for this).