Purple Grenadiers

[dfcauley]

Sally and Misty....... I respect you both greatly for the work you are doing and the expense you have gone to in order to try to preserve these beautiful birds.
We are always learning things on this forum and I hope neither of you become discouraged by any of the information that you are learning.
Great job Misty on your three fledgings and Sally best wishes for some in your near future!!!

[CandoAviary]

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[MLaRue]

I'm really not sure what breeders you are referring to SPECIFICALLY for Grenadiers. There are none! In fact I can think of enough possible Grenadier breeders on one hand right now here in the US.

In 2001 - I knew of maybe one person. When I got back into the birds after having my daughter (2002) - the internet was finally starting to kick off and still there was little if anything available to the majority for any WAXBILL keeping in the US. There was no fresh stock here and there was perhaps no birds even here at the time. Surely none that were viable for breeding if any at all. I'm specifically talking Grens.

Purist? What is that? Do you mean all the thousands of Gouldian breeders are thinking to keep their lines pure? No the majority want mutations - the more the merrier. The original Gouldian is green -- not yellow, not silver, not pastel and surely not blue. No the majority of Gouldian breeders I know out there want one of every color. And, if that means breeding blue to blue then there are some that think this ok to do. Breeders have proved that the majority of this type of breeding has given horrible results but some are still willing to try...

The Grens might come in sub species but if we are not getting them from the imports then we need to work with what we have and if that means mixing the two sub species then it will be done - otherwise we loose the species all together because we wanted to remain pure? Waxbills don't have endless fertility and if we continue to wait for new bloodlines then we loose a beloved species not known to many because unfortunately the Waxbills are not as popular amongst the US breeders.

I, too have many bird books. Very expensive and very cheap books. You can read and research all you want but it makes no difference if you don't have the birds to work with to begin with and if the imports from the 70's resulted in two different species being mixed together - perhaps they did not have the books available to them. I don't know and I really don't care. I grew up in the seventies and the most exotic finch you could own at that time was a Star finch - Gouldians were just a picture in the books. As a young adult I remember the first Gouldian I saw in person - besides the exorbitant prices - I left the pet store vowing to find as much information as I could before purchasing them. Which meant going back to my finch books that I had as a child. A paragraph was about all it had and this was THE finch book to have then. No internet, nothing in the library and book stores were a joke. The best source for specific books like that then was from the very store the birds sat.

The reason for such little information on the web for these birds is because so very few people are working with them. The article that the NFSS references has been there for many years and is the only article you will find for the most part with even that much detail. I don't think the authors could be accused of not caring or not knowing or not finding it important to research. They were working with the birds they had available to them - nothing more and nothing less.

To me this species is worth the expense of acquiring them and housing them. They are a challenge and a worthy finch to keep. I don't know of any other Waxbills that are purposely being bred for the sheer joy of mixing sub species. I only know of breeders out there that breed their birds in the hundreds for what? Money? Couldn't be because we have already proved there is no money to be made in birds. And, if people are making money then they are breeding birds in masses and those are the worst kind of breeders in my opinion. Not the small breeder that has taken an interest in a species like the Grenadiers - they are the pioneers of breeders in my opinion. To walk away from the typical breeds like Gouldians, Societies and Zebras. Yes, I do own all three but I also own many other species because I want the uncommon finches not just the finches that are being bred by the thousands and not always to preserve the species but because most think they can make some money on them.

I aim to preserve what we have available to us in the US and the NFSS is helping in bringing like breeders together before it is too late. Again.

[CandoAviary]

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[MLaRue]

Maybe Canada is a bit better off (than US) at the moment but the whole of North America is doing very poorly with African Finches; all the factors that have been brought up are valid (lack of imports, cost, food requirements, lack of care, lack of info, challenges in finding the available info...etc).

I do not live in the US; but I know there were at least three separate shipments of PGs to the US by two different Canadian brokers in late summer and early fall of 2010 (I do not know who the shipments were made to or where they were sent exactly but I do know that the total shipment cost was above 15000 US dollars), also a couple of months ago Dominic made a post after visiting a bird show where PGs were available.

As I originally mentioned the point of this post was to provide an update about this specie so that if anyone is interested in breeding this finch, and is able to obtain wild caught pairs, they would have the understanding to select ‘true’ pairs (that is “if” they don’t consider this specie monotypic).

I'm going to ask around about these imports because Georgia certainly saw none and thinking Texas didn't either. Perhaps our brokers didn't want to put up so much money on a species that isn't popular. I wonder if Birds Express got them? One way to find out is go directly to the source.

But if you think about it 15,000.00 is only about 100 Grenadiers - if you don't put in the cost of customs, broker fees and what ever else there might be in there so it was probably more like half that in birds and the other is general fees. Because I don't think 100 of them came in - some of the best known brokers didn't advertise them so either they went to a private breeder or something else. The only other broker I can think of that might possible put that kind of money up front is one out of NJ and the other out of Arkansas. But will ask around now to find out where they did go - perhaps the S Florida people took them to Cuba....

[Sally]

Yes, there are some for sale here and there--none in Texas that I know of. The pair and single male that I was offered were local, but I know both people, and both told me their birds were old, they had had them for years.

The breeder/broker in Arizona that had the Grens at a fair that Domenic attended has not answered multiple emails. I guess I will have to fly to Arizona to attend a bird mart to get to see his birds.

I have contacted others who said they had Grens for sale, but getting information on them is like pulling teeth, and this is very off-putting to me. I don't feel great dealing with someone who is reluctant to tell me about his/her birds. One person, when I asked him to tell me about his Purple Grenadiers, replied 'What do you want to know?' My favorite non-answer to my question about whether birds (another species) were domestic or wild-caught--yes!

I have bought enough unbanded Strawberries that were sold as young and yet when paired with my young birds, I get infertile eggs. So I hope it is understandable when I am just a little cynical when I do see birds advertised for sale. I much prefer to deal with people I know either directly or thru references.

[MLaRue]

It will be nice to get something new and fresh to read

[Domenic]

What an informative thread! I had no idea grenadiers so were so rare to come by. It seems like many people on this forum own them and have seen them at fairs, unlike the strawberry which I have never seen in person.

[JohnBoy]

What an informative thread! I had no idea grenadiers so were so rare to come by. It seems like many people on this forum own them and have seen them at fairs, unlike the strawberry which I have never seen in person.

I see PG at every bird fair I go to. Jan at Texas Pride Aviary usually always has them. Mandy at Singing Wings Aviary usually has them. And Birds Express usually always has them. However I have noticed that they go fast. I would think the numbers in the US are greater than we think.

[MLaRue]

I've not seen them. And the two people you refer to are both middle man brokers and charge way too much. I refuse to pay top dollar prices for birds that are not in top exquisite shape. I would prefer to buy from a breeder or a broker like Birds Express. I also hesitate to buy birds from middle brokers anymore because how long have they had them? And in what conditions.... I have to be very careful what I do since I do have a large expensive flock.

I've not seen Karl, Jamie, Floyd or any other well known finch brokers advertising or selling them. Who does Jan get them from - BE? We know Mandy does. I've also been warned the longer they sit at BE - buyer beware. :/

[CandoAviary]

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[MLaRue]

I just checked them all and only Singing Wings has them listed for sale at $150.00 each....

[MLaRue]

Jan's birds of Texas Pride have always looked great at the fairs. She seems to have the knack for finches, they are always in perfect feather

I've never seen her birds in Georgia - so she must stay close to home in her travels.

[JohnBoy]

Jan's birds of Texas Pride have always looked great at the fairs. She seems to have the knack for finches, they are always in perfect feather

I've never seen her birds in Georgia - so she must stay close to home in her travels.

She sticks to Texas and Louisiana.

[annague]

I feel like I am trying to soak up all this key information on PG's from you folks that have vastly more experience with finches than I.

Very interesting information. I guess my opinion is pretty naive and simplistic: it would be best to keep the species pure. BUT, it is better to have some PG's of mixed blood than to risk them disappearing altogether for the finch fanciers.

I'm glad Fardad, Misty and Sally are all keeping on top of what is going on with the PG's (Fardad you are amazing!!) And, if I get to a place in the future where I feel ready to take on PG's I guess I know who I will be looking to buy mine from...