Pied Gouldians?

[CandoAviary]

I just coined that phrase "dapple". But I think I will be calling my modification on this mutation that, simply because I like it and it won't confuse anyone on pieds...(may confuse them on other things ) but at least they will have to stop and think what the difference between single factor pieds and double factor pieds whether they be green, yellow or blue gouldian mutations...............
I have never heard the term dapple used in the bird world, most of the time terms used for light or dark feathering are ticking, as in canaries, pied, as in zebras, varigated, as in canaries and such

[nixity]

I agree with Misty about the male - I don't think he is pied, but probably just a very light SF who has some green blotches peeking through.

I have seen these green spots on yellow hens before, too, and they're not permanent - they change with each molt it seems. I had a SF Yellow male that had a green spot one year, and it was gone the next.

I also wondered about the female being a possible half-sider but besides that, she does/did look like a pied to me. *shrug*

[CandoAviary]

Teresa, here is a thread to breeder, Mr. Fisk, in Australia that has been working with pieds for a while. ....both the single factor and double factors.
Pied is a dominant mutation. When a double factor is paired with a normal green all chicks will be pied. If a single factor pied is paired with a normal then a 50% chance of getting pied. Here is the link to some info, seems other countries are ahead of us on this mutation. http://www.hawkesburyfinchclub.com/gouldian01.html

I personally have had yellow hens with green spots and sf cocks with green spots that were born in my care in 2009. They have retained their spots, actually have gotten more with each yearly molt. They have also passed this trait on to some young. I have sold some to a fellow who is working with pieds as he has a love for them.
I will try and get some pics posted later today.

[Teresa]

Thanks Candace. This is all very interesting and informative. I bought this little guy from Sergio Martinez in Miami. You don't know of him do you?

[CandoAviary]

Hey Teresa, sorry for the delayed response. Yes I know of Sergio. He no longer breeds gouldians though, he specializes in rarer cockatoos and macaws these days.... He was once talked about here on this forum for advertizing "orange backed" gouldians. There was a light that cast a orange/red glowed and it was the concenses that maybe they were a "lighting tricks" with the birds??? He swore they were authenic but that the lighting did make them look more orange. I have a yellow backed gouldian that has developed an orange/red neck so I do believe it is possible. Nothing like seeing it with your own eyes to be a believer
Anyway here are a couple of my pied birds...sorry for the awful pics...still haven't mastered photography 101 and most of the birds are on nest and were a little freaked out by my photo op
Yellow Pied hen born Jan. 2009 and has retained all green spots through moults






Different hen, sister of the above, same age


Different pair, this is a new mate for her this year...hopping for heavier pieds
Last year she birthed normals, sf yellows and sf light pieds


This is one of her youngsters from her last clutch of 2010 (February I believe it was without lokkin at the records) I kept him because he is unique...we will see how he turns out with the next molt








He's the first I have gotten with a mottled chest, this line usually has very nice lilac breast, he has some dark purple, lilac and white feathers...will be interesting to see what happens with his next molt


Here he is with some other youngsters...he's the one with the mottled chest


Here is a link to my first nicely marked hen at a young age, unforyunately I lost her soon after that photo was taken. The topic was given some additional information so I have included the link.
http://finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8064

[nixity]

I wouldn't consider those pieds - I would consider it an unclean yellow, it would be considered a fault when showing.

Perhaps it is a pre-cursor to pied but it doesn't look like a true pied to me, especially since the body is yellow with a few flecks of green, not vice versa.

But that's just my opinion..

[CandoAviary]

Thanks for your input Tiffany. I don't show my birds so I don't have to worry about faults. Even the imperfects are worthy in my eyes I am just a hobby breeder that is fascinated by what sprouts up from time to time in my birds.
On this link
http://users.skynet.be/fa398872/engoulm04.htm
They have some single factor birds (the pastel blues that are single factor...and they do have light feathers. And the last RH sf with dark green feathers? or would you say that that is a green dilute with yellow feathers? Mine are all lilac breast so the backs are more lemon/lime green (at least in the boys.
I thought it may too be a dirty back and would clear up (much like dirty breast) with the molt) didn't though so I was thinking maybe a percursor also. I am pairing some of the offsprings with normal green backs to see what happens.....
Do you believe that if there is a pied factor in greens that their could also be a pied factor in yellow? Blues, sf and df? Do you think the yellow pieds would have white feathers instead of green feathers?
Some Austrailian breeders who have the australian yellows (lots of green in the yellow backs) have thought the yellow pieds were closely related. I'd be interested in what you think about the formation of their australian yellows and sf pieds over there.
Austrailian yellows:
http://www.gouldianfinch.com.au/
Here's some that look to be austrailian yellow split pied. Some of these juvies look like dirty yellow backs to me
http://users.skynet.be/fa398872/engoulm08.htm
These show a light ground bird with dark fethering in spots
http://users.skynet.be/fa398872/engoulm20.htm

I think there is very little research done on these mutations here in the states. But I am sure that the mutations that come about over there will also eventually crop up here as long as there are breeders who are experimenting breeding lines that for now are considered "imperfect".



Teresa,
Below is a link to some of the 'orange backed' gouldians that sergio had.

http://www.petmacaw.com/photos/17062092871242853294.jpg

Here is my DF yellow male that has develpoed some orange to the nape of his neck. Only one that has ever shown this.




These pics were taken with just filtered daylight from the windows


This is with a flash

[nixity]

There was a lot of discussion about the supposed "orange" Gouldians - most people concluded it was just because of the lighting, since the hands of the people holding the birds look almost orange, too.

I've had DF yellows with the orange color to the back of the neck, Tang is one of them.

The photos on the Erythrura site all look like true pieds to me, the last bird just looks "heavily" pied or more solidly pied.

[CandoAviary]

I've had DF yellows with the orange color to the back of the neck, Tang is one of them.

.

Do you have any pictures of Tang that show this orange color on his neck? I would love to see them, as now that I have seen one I am looking at every yellow out there

Also Tiffany, I have gotten some offspring from the sister of bluehead showing some blue to the head and cheeks. Did you ever get any chicks from your 'blue head' pastel? I will get some pics to post of my youngsters.

[Teresa]

Thanks for the pictures Candace! Oh my gosh, your yellow male is beautiful! And your yellow pieds look similar to my guy here. Beautiful!

I wanted to show you this bird. (He's a bit scruffy right now but he's striking after the molt) It's one I got from Sergio and I believe he did have orange back Gouldians. This beautiful guy is suppose to be one of the young from the orange back in the picture you uploaded of his. These pictures were taken today and in the one picture I have him perched next to another male so you can see the difference in the bellies.

[CandoAviary]

Teresa...oh my goodness what a dashing fellow. I too believe he had some orange colored goulds.... at least dark pigmented yellows. He also had some awesome dark pigmented or melanistic goulds. I wanted to buy some but was so overwelmed at the time with too many birds. Now he no longer has them. Do you ship yours? I would love to maybe someday get some of your yellow/orange to cross with mine...you never know what may pop up next
I can see the orange throughout his back and belly...... he is sooo pretty!!!
You sound a lot like me and are fascinated with the unique and different colors
I had a couple of hens that got some really deep yellow/rusty looking bellies. I have them set up to breed now and will have to find those pictures.........

You know, I am beginning to think there are a lot more mutations/modifications of gouldians in Florida. There are so many dedicated breeders in south Florida.

[Teresa]

I so love the different colors and can't wait to see what I get out of this one! I have had birds shipped in to me but never tried shipping out though I'd be willing to try it. Sounds easy enough.

I am so interested in trading with you! I got about 18 birds from Sergio - all he had left and he gave me no info as to who is who so I have to mate them with others that I got locally. I posted in my "introduction" post pictures of the melanistic gould I got from him. It has since molted out and lost a lot of the darker coloring. Here's the link to that post -
http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11969

I'll have to wait another year probably to do any trading as these guys seemed to want to mate later summer and fall last year. I tried in April/May but they weren't at all interested. It'll be fun to look forward to though.

[nixity]

This is the only picture I have that really shows his back (that I have access to on my computer at work). The flash has washed it out a bit..



His father had similar coloration on the back of his neck (and apparently so did other birds from that line - this line is from Rhonda Olson) but I don't have any photos that show it.

[CandoAviary]

Thanks for the picture, I had seen that one on your site but couldn't really see the orange on the neck... could be my monitor. If you have other pictures once you get home I would love to see them.

On the link about the austrailian yellows...some of the 1960 photos of the early stock look like these "faulty' yellow birds

[CandoAviary]

Teresa, I am in no hurry... I am not comfortable shipping yet either. But I will be continuing trying to breed orange goulds... spotted goulds ... blue headed goulds..... zebra striped goulds.... that last one is just a joke