My Society's Round 2

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:17 pm

Well after the first unsuccessful attempt several months ago, I setup my Society's again early this month. This time I used a plastic nest box (the kind from the internet that can be washed in the dishwasher after each clutch).

The first time my wife and had put one of those straw/fiber "huts" in the cage. That resulted in 7 eggs, 2 hatched, and both were tossed out the day after hatching.

Last thrusday I counted 8 eggs, and on friday there were 3 hatchlings. This morning I think I could make out 4 or 5 little mouths and I could have sworn I heard little "peeping" noises from the nest (I thought they weren't supposed to start begging for 2 or 3 days?).

So far so good *nock on wood*... I hope this round goes better.

Here are some of the changes I've made since the first attempt:

Switched from fiber "hut" nest to plastic nest box with bigger opening that's also a bit deeper inside (harder too toss the baby's accidently).

Changed from the homemade eggfood I was making and I started giving them a commercial dry eggfood. For whatever reason, they prefere the commercial eggfood over the "fresh" eggs I was making them ( I did a side by side dish test to see!).

Staying out of their way more! Last time I was trying to peek in the nest a couple of times a week, the other nest had a small opening and it took a lot of effort to see in, probably spooking them. This time since the opening is bigger I can see into the nest without disturbing the birds.

trevorama · Post by **trevorama** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:46 pm

Sounds like things are going to go very well for them! Sometimes it's trial and error. I used one of the same types of nests (the first one) and the babys kept falling out too. I put a heat lamp on the floor of the aviary because inevitably they would fall out at night and it was cold so that way they'd be ok in the am when I went out to check on them.
let us know how it goes with them.

EmilyHurd · Post by **EmilyHurd** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:26 am

I would def. minimize the nest checks, as that can scare the parents and then they'll abandon.

The nest boxes are also much better b/c they are bigger. Societies in particular will cram into a nest that is to small, and someone can end up suffocating (which did happen to one of my societies)!

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:42 am

I caught a good peek inside the nest this morning at the "changing of the guard" (while mom and dad were both outside the nest breifly).

My count of 8 eggs was right, there are 6 chicks and 2 eggs left in the nest.

I figure I'll give the eggs a couple more days just in case, but at this point I'm thinking they are duds.

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:31 pm

Update:

There are 2 babies that look like mom (brown feathers starting to show) and 3 that look like dad (black feathers). I have no idea what happened to the 6th baby, I never saw it in the bottom tray, so I can only assume it's burried in the nesting materials.

With this bigger box I can get a pretty good look inside, and I have to admit, I'm pretty surprised at how quickly the birdy poo piles up in there. So much so I'm starting to wonder if I should clean the box out a bit.

I've been debating if I want to band the baby's now, or if I'm going to wait until after they fledge. The bands I have are the open plastic kind, so I'm a bit hesitant to use them while the baby's are still 100% nest bound.

If I band the birds now, that would give me an excuse to clean the nest box, or even replace it with an identical nest box (I purchased a few of these that are exactly the same).

So the way I figure things, I can either bite my lip, and keep my hands off, let nature finish it's thing. Or I can pull them out, put the bands on and put them back into a clean nest.

I'm sorta leaning tword the first option, since they should start the fledging process end of next week or so...

fairestfinches · Post by **fairestfinches** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 11:20 pm

We also use the plastic nest box for some of societies. Definatley makes checking the nest much easier! We typically NFSS (aluminum closed leg band) or babies at around 7-8 days. While we have them out we check them to make sure they are getting fed well and putting on weight. As you mentioned it's a great time to swap out the nest for a clean one, and since the plastic ones are identical we have never had a pair abandon the nest after the swap. I vote for banding and swapping nests. You may find the sixth baby in the process. Good luck!

Sean

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:27 pm

Thanks for the quick reply Sean!

I haven't joined the NFSS, yet... I planned on joining next year after I get my Gouldian's breeding (I do have a "test" pair setup for breeding, but they are still in the nest building / courting proccess, and haven't laid any eggs yet).

So I let the babies go beyond the 8-9 days for closed banding. If I caught the hatch date correctly, they are 20 days old today. They are supposed to fledge at 19-25 days acording to most sources. When I look in the nest I can see that they are completely covered in feathers and pin feathers. Every day I look, I can tell right away they have grown! It's truely amazing how fast they grow! Anyway, I have a feeling they are getting ready to fledge just about any second now.

All the little heads are peaking out of the nest when I look in on them, and they seem to be "upright and alert" is the best I can describe it.

I'm also excited to report that the parents seem to be excellent parents. Every time I've had the chance to look in on them, the crops are all buldging with food (it really freaked my wife out the first time she saw those little tiny pink baby's with crops bigger than thier heads!!!!

After I read reports on this website about finches not feeding baby's pelletted diets, I started mixing quality seed mix with the pelletts.

Interestingly enough, the male bird (dad) is feeding the baby's with pellets and eggfood, and the female (mom) is feeding them eggfood / seed and NO pellets.... How confusing is that? I have no idea why. I observed this last weekend (I work M-F everyday and can't observe them as much as I'd like too). [ The reason I know is because I've put in 4 food sources, 1 dish has eggfood, 1 dish has seed, 1 dish has pellets, and I have a tube type feeder with pellets. Dad goes to the tube feeder and the eggfood dish, and mom only goes to the eggfood dish and the seed dish. ]

EmilyHurd · Post by **EmilyHurd** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:09 pm

In my opinion b/c you say they are about 20 days old, you are probably safe on banding and switching out the nest. I wouldn't do this normally when the birds are younger especially for open banding. They are cuter to pick up when they are a bit older too, and they can hold the band better on their little legs.

The parents will probably have a hissy fit while you do this. Whenever I switch out the nest, I put the parents somewhere else, so they don't see what is going on.

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:53 pm

Emily,

I'm sure the parents are going to freak out, they do everytime I go to change the food/water even though I don't have to put my hand's into the cage to do it!

I'm guessing the baby's can't fly yet, so after reading your post, I was thinking about taking the nest box out of the room and over to my kitchen table to band and swap nest boxes.

I'm guessing I should also wait until after the parents feed them so they arn't hungry when I go to mess with them?

Post by **Sally** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:36 pm

I have never closed banded, so I just wait till the babies fledge to catch them and put on split bands. I use colors to mark families, so I later know who the parents were. I have never swapped out the nests, and they do get pretty 'poopy', but the birds seemed to have survived it. Some species are better about keeping their nests a little cleaner than others.

Rottie, I was really happy with the pellet diets, then late this fall, I noticed that most of the birds seemed 'off', not really sick looking, but just didn't look as good as they had. They also seemed quieter and less active. I was totally stumped, tried various things, then got a quality seed mix. The birds are all looking better, singing, more active. I know the pellets are good quality, and I've also made some other changes in my bird room, so hard to pinpoint any one factor. Hilary commented at one time that she felt the birds needed the challenge of hunting thru seed mixes. Maybe that's it, maybe they just got bored. Anyway, I too was afraid they wouldn't feed pellets to the babies, so now everyone gets both the seed mix and the pellets, and they all seem happier.

rottielover · Post by **rottielover** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:59 pm

Sally,

You know I think I had something similar happen, but I never realized it till now, when your post got me thinking about it...

For several weeks after I converted my Gouldians to the pellets, I fed only the pellets. After a few weeks I was re-reading the back of the bag the pellets came in and a line in the text really jumped out at me this time. It was something to the effect of "the birds diet should be made up of 80% pellets or greater"...

Our first bird is our Severe Macaw, and he's been on the Zupreem pellets since he was hatched. At his first vet visit the vet told us that he should be fed pellets full time from the feed cups and given about a tablespoon of "other" foods each day (treats mostly, like fresh fruit, eggs, etc.)

Well I finally got around to thinking about how that would translate to finches. So instead of offering just pellets and the occasional spray millet, I started offering a mix of pellets and seed mix.

I start with the pellets, and then add high quality seed mix, I try to keep the 80% 20% ratio of 80% pellets and 20% seed in the feed cups. Because the pellets are actually a little smaller than the seeds (and more brightly colord in the fruit blend I use) it looks like the seed cup is all pellets.

At first I was worried that the birds would "switch back" to the seeds, hunting them out and only eating those... but much to my surprise, they eat both! On top of that I also offer the occasional spray millet, egg food, fruit, veggie, etc.

I am not sure if this is because I swithched them to an only pellet diet for a while first or not, but it seems to me that would probably have something to do with it.

Anyway, after I started mixing the foods, I noticed that my younger birds (the blue's and split I got from a breeder) who were not molting out of juvi feathers, have started to leave massive ammounts of juvi feathers on the cage floor and the floor around the cage. Last night I observed many more pin feathers on these three birds than I had ever noticed previously.

It's much too early to tell for certain, but I have a sneeking suspision that with finches, it's not "the food" but rather "the variety" of the foodS (plural). Almost as if they need "bursts" of certain nutrients at certain times, rather than a steady and measured flow of nutrients (like with an all pellet diet).

So the only differance between my Gouldians and the society's right now is the way I'm offering the foods. Since the society's had the chicks, I stopped mixing the seed and pellets and put them in seperate dishes.

Pellets work great with parrots, I've seen that proven again and again each time I look at my Severe, and those in pet stores that are on a seed mix (the color's in my Macaw are much more intense than those of the pet store birds).

With finches I have to say that I'm not as convinced as I once was a few months ago... I think time will tell.

trevorama · Post by **trevorama** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:01 pm

I had gone to a "avian" vet with one of my finches. He told me they only need to eat pellets, and that was it. I always feed all kinds of food and quite frankly thought he was out of his mind. It sounded like the sales pitch you get from the food salesman. I feed pellets, but also seed and lots of other things. I just don't believe they can get everything they need out of just pellets, but that's just my opinion.

EmilyHurd · Post by **EmilyHurd** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:00 am

I converted my finches to an all pellet diet... and then after reading a lot I decided that my finches love seed, and if I can get a great quality seed than they would be fine!

Well it worked, and now I mix Roudybush pellets in the seed mix, and they do eat both. I also offer many other things... but I decided that my finches were unhappy with an all pellet diet.

EmilyHurd · Post by **EmilyHurd** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:06 am

I have never closed banded, so I just wait till the babies fledge to catch them and put on split bands. I use colors to mark families, so I later know who the parents were. I have never swapped out the nests, and they do get pretty 'poopy', but the birds seemed to have survived it.

I agree with Sally... I do the same thing and just wait til the fledge to band them. I only use split bands too... and use different color bands for each family. The nest will start to smell... but right when I know that every baby has fledged and is doing well, I take the nest out and usually just toss it b/c I don't use plastic finch boxes.

I can tell you based on my experience, my babies do much better when I just leave them alone until the fledge. I used to mess with the babies a little and take them out when they were young to band them.... then I had babies die, and the parents weren't laying as many eggs.

I've just had more success leaving them alone.