silver gouldian finch breading question

Viiicky · Post by **Viiicky** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:22 pm

I know that female gouldian finches will have their beak turn black when they are ready to mate, does silver gouldian ladies' beaks also turn black?

I have a beautiful silver lady I wish to mate with a yellow male, but since I dont know her age , I do not want to take a chance and have her mate too early and risk her health.

Thank you in advance !

Ravyn · Post by **Ravyn** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:45 pm

I don't know for sure, but I do know that my female black-face gouldian has little to NO black on her beak, but she all but hopped into bed with my male and now is sitting on at least five eggs.

If in doubt, wait six months. If she's in full adult colors that will make her at least a year old.

Viiicky · Post by **Viiicky** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:00 pm

Good idea for the 6 mouth waiting time. Since I got her last november and she was already as is, I could be safe in april to have her find a mate.

Here is her picture and the guy with whom I would like to mate her.

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Who knows in genetics, what colors babys I could get ?

hoppa · Post by **hoppa** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:00 pm

Could you add a pic of the silver hen? I'd like to see her back, if I could.

thanks,
mike

Post by **Hilary** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:04 am

Here's my 2 cents. Can't really tell by the picture, but if she's a black head and the male is NOT split to blue the chances for each color would be:

25% male red/black/orange, purple/white, double-factor yellow/blue
25% male red/black/orange, purple/white, single factor yellow/blue (green dilute)

25% female red/orange, purple/white, yellow/blue
25% female red/orange, purple/white, green/blue

So all males would have red heads but be split to both black and orange, while females would have red heads and be split to orange. All would have purple breasts, but be split to white. All would be split to blue. Boys would either be yellow with a white ring around their neck or a green dilute, while girls would be either yellow or green.

If he's split to blue you could also get "silver" boys or girls (silver back with purple breast), blue dilute boys, or blue girls.

Viiicky · Post by **Viiicky** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:16 pm

It's hard to take a good picture, especially at night with the flash, and I don't precisely know what you are looking for

Viiicky · Post by **Viiicky** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:21 pm

WHAH !!!! Hilary, that gets complicated

What about if I asked insted what color male would be the best match for my silver girl ?

There is a yellow, orange head adult male with blue inheritance available for sale near here and I'm just holding back to go get him

fairestfinches · Post by **fairestfinches** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:25 pm

If you pair her to a split to blue male you'll be able to get more variety of offspring including blues. That's the nice thing about silvers. They can be used to produce more vairations of off spring than oterh mutations.

When you breed her watch her closely, as silver hens have more trouble laying than other Goulds typically do, or in other words breeding seems to be harder on them.

Sean

Viiicky · Post by **Viiicky** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:44 pm

Thanks !

Just to make sure, what is a split to blue ?
( my first language is french, so I need to get used to the english terms

)

fairestfinches · Post by **fairestfinches** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:36 pm

Viiicky,

Split ot blue is a term used for Gouldians that carries the blue gene, but does express the blue color. It will express the green or yellow body.

So for a bird to be called a split to blue one of the parents has to be blue bodied. If both parents carry the blue gene, but do not visually express the blue body any offspring can not be called a true splt to blue because the off srping may or may not have inherited the blue gene. The only way to know if a bird carries the blue gene at that point is to breed ot to a blue and see if any of the offspring are blue from that combination. (this could take several clutches) If none of them are blue the parent of the new babies did not inherit the blue gene from it's parents.

Do not feel bad about asking about terminology. English is my first language and I don't always understand it myself. LOL!

Hope that helps,
Sean

Post by **Hilary** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:11 am

Hey, people FIGHT over gouldian genetic terminology!

Split to blue just means that the bird isn't blue visually, but does carry the blue gene so there is the possibility of producing blue chicks if paired to another bird with a blue gene.

You really need to think about what you want to get from the pairing - that will help pick a male. Of course, with all of that she still may not like him! Ornery things.....

fairestfinches · Post by **fairestfinches** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:10 am

Hilary,

Your right about fighting over terminology, but I can't in good faith sell a split to blue as a true split with out one of that bird's parents expressing the blue body. I'm not trying to peck' a fight over this one, but I want to make sure that members of this forum understand the differences when talking about gould genetics and terminology. Split to blue birds demand higher prices than normals or possible split to blue birds (which should be considered normal unless they produce a blue bodied baby). Would you be willing to pay for a split to blue that had only a chance of carrying the gene or would you prefer to get what you pay for by knowing the bird is a true split to blue because one of it's parents was blue bodied?

Sean

Post by **Hilary** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:24 am

No fight, Sean - I totally agree. Since "split" means they carry the gene but don't demonstrate it, the only ways you can know for sure that they are split are 1) if one parent is visually blue (so no doubt at all that they are split) or 2) they produce a blue chick when paired with another bird carrying the gene. No way would I sell a bird as split to blue if I didn't know for sure, nor would I pay the higher price unless the breeder had proof. Excellent point to make - thanks. Don't pay for "split to blue" unless the bird has the blue parent or has produced blue chicks. Don't get cheated! In my part of town that's a $50 - $60 difference!

So Viiicky, if you want the chance of getting blue chicks from your beautiful silver girl, make sure the breeder can prove that the male you get really is split to blue.

fairestfinches · Post by **fairestfinches** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:22 am

I'd also like to say that I'd bet my bottom dollar that Vicky's silver hen is actually lilac breasted. We have a pair of goulds that produced a hen that looks exactly like the one in the picture Vicky posted and that hen was lilac breasted.

So, if I'm right about the hen's breast color and Vicky pairs her to a white breasted SF Yellow male, they could produce the following offspring:

Rh-Bh-Oh, Lb-Wb, SF Yellow-blue (aka dilute-b) -- which would be visually yellow in body color due to the lilac breast
Rh-Bh-Oh, Lb-Wb, DF Yellow-blue
Rh-Oh, Lb-Wb, Normal-blue hens
Rh-Oh, Lb-Wb, Yellow-blue hens

Michele

Viiicky · Post by **Viiicky** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:55 pm

She does have a lilac breast , is she still a silver ?