Trimethoprim Sulfa dose?

H2015 · Post by **H2015** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:22 am

What would be the correct dose for a gouldian with coccidiosis? Here's the one I found:

Composition 100g

Sulphadimethoxine sodium.....20g
(equivalent to Sulphadimexthoxine base 18.6g)
Trimethoprim.....4g

(ie: Sulphadimethoxine sodium: 200mg/g - Trimethoprim: 40mg/g)

Also should I treat all the birds that came in contact with the sick bird or only the one that shows symptoms?

Thanks

H2015 · Post by **H2015** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:42 pm

So I assume no one could help with this as it's been two days.

I'll use 1 gram per litre and hopefully that works alright.

Post by **Hilary** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:07 am

I'm so sorry that nobody has replied! Hopefully somebody will at least address whether to treat the whole flock. I've been lucky enough not to have to deal with this yet, so unfortunately don't have a good answer for you. Good luck!

Post by **Sally** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:00 am

I also have no clue as to what to do, sorry to be of so little help.

fairestfinches · Post by **fairestfinches** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:23 am

H2O,

The best I could find would be to administer the T-Sulfa mix you have at the rate of 5 grams to 2 liters of water -- which is 1 tsp to 8.5 cups (1/2 tsp to 4 1/4 cups; 1/4 tsp to 2 1/8 cups; 1/8 tsp to 1 1/16 cups).

Both are fairly safe antibiotics. Sulfa was first developed to help boost the human immune system. The only notable drawback to Sulfa is that it has proven to cause infertility in large enough doses (over time).

Hope this helps!

Michele

H2015 · Post by **H2015** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:23 am

Thank you SO much Michele!!! That's very helpful!

H2015 · Post by **H2015** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:06 pm

Not much improvement.

Today's the fourth day since treatment. No green, red, or watery droppings at all, which means whatever was wrong is no longer a problem.

But my BH male still perches with a hunched back and his tail would be slightly erected sometimes and droopy wings which clearly doesn't seem ok. When I searched online I found that this position is a sign of gut pain or something along those lines so I guess he's not cured yet.

I also read somewhere that Coccidiosis can't be treated once the damage is done, this is where I'm concerned, could it be that I was too late with the T-sulfa treatment?

I also don't think what he has is AGY cause if it is he'd probably be dead by now and he's been like this for weeks, not getting worse but not getting better either.

I'm planning to separate them today since the others show no symptoms or signs and I will keep him on T-sulfa for a few more days but not sure what to do next. I'd hate to give up on him.

fairestfinches · Post by **fairestfinches** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:27 pm

H2O,

It can take between 7 & 10 days for some birds to begin to show any signs of improvement when being treated with T-Sulfa.

Give it some more time and see if he starts perking up again.

If not, you might need to re-evaluate.

Michele

H2015 · Post by **H2015** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:35 am

It's been 10 days now since he started on T-sulfa and I noticed a bit of improvement since yesterday and wanted to know if it's safe to continue the medicine or if I should stop?

I felt his chest bone and I can still feel it but it's not as bad as it was. He eats well and drinks a lot and there's no signs of anything bad in his poop.

The only sign I still notice is that he sometimes perch with a slightly hunched back (not as bad as before) and sometimes the wings would be droopy. He tries to sing too but no sound comes out, maybe a low whistle but just for half a second and then he goes on singing mutely.

fairestfinches · Post by **fairestfinches** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:30 pm

Hi, H2O!

I would discontinue the T-Sulfa now since he's been on it for 10 days. Some studies have shown that T-Sulfa can affect fertility and you don't want to overdo the med and cause him to be infertile.

If he's trying to sing but no sound is coming out, he may have an URI (upper respiratory tract infection). According to information I have, tetracycline is typically used to treat respiratory infections caused by bacteria. Amoxicillian also can be used to treat, but it's more broad spectrum and tends not to be as effective.

Michele

H2015 · Post by **H2015** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:01 pm

I have tetracycline, is it safe to start right away or should I give him a few days rest first with probiotics?

Thanks a lot Michele, you've been a wonderful help.

fairestfinches · Post by **fairestfinches** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:05 pm

Hi, H2O!

Thank you and you're quite welcome!

That's a hard question to answer. On one side, it's usually best to treat as quickly as possible considering how fast a finch can die without treatment. And, on the other side is the question of overdoing the medications and risking the bird dying from that.

T-Sulfa is fairly benign -- like Amoxicillin -- and since he has been showing improvement, it would probably be okay to start the tetracycline now. But, remember, I'm not a vet. I can only suggest what I would do/try if I were in your shoes. You're the best judge of your bird's condition.

After the tetracycline, you could give the probiotics.

Michele

H2015 · Post by **H2015** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:29 am

The treatment with Tetracycline did not do much, he's still very much the same so I decided to just leave him without treatment for now and try to provide as much nutrients as possible instead.

Yesterday he was dancing to my female and she responded and they were doing the court dance back and forth for quite some time!

This morning she is cutting off shreds from the newspaper and they're both becoming territorial which makes me wonder if it'd be a good idea to isolate them and provide a nest to see how far they'll manage?

He is still showing the hunched back and droopy wings every now and then so I can tell he's not thriving but seems to be interested in breeding. The female on the other hand is in excellent condition, she's very active and loud.

fairestfinches · Post by **fairestfinches** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:56 pm

Hi, H2O!

You mentioned that your male gould was pretty much the same after the tetracycline treatment as before. But, before the treatment you indicated that he couldn't sing.

-- Since he's been courting a hen, has he started singing again or is no sound coming out still?

-- Is his hunched, droopy winged posture the only sign indication that he may not be 100%?

If so, I think you'll find ... if you go back and re-read through your posts about this little fella ... that he has improved from the T-Sulfa and Tetracycline treatments.

The hunched, droopy winged posture in a male finch could be due to gut pain as you indicated, or it could be due to feeling stressed. When he's perched hunched over with the droopy wings, does he sometimes move his wings quickly like he's thinking about/wanting to fly? Or, does he simply perch with no wing movement?

The rapid wing movement (without subsequent flight) is typically a sign of stress. The stress could be caused by any number of factors: too many birds in the cage (feeling cramped), onset of dehydration, aggression (fighting over the "pecking" order), feeling pressure to breed before the bird is ready, cage size could be too small/hasn't adjusted to it yet, etc. In these cases, I put the stressed bird in a cage by itself for a few days and offer Thrive, and the bird will calm down. Then, I correct the situation that may have caused the stress -- i.e., reduce the number of birds in the cage or put the stressed bird in a cage with fewer birds, make sure the bird knows where the water is located, isolate aggressive birds, remove the hen (if breeding), introduce the bird to a larger cage, etc.

If a bird hunches over on the perch with droopy wings and there is no rapid wing movement, that's typically a sign of illness ... in which case you would still need to determine the cause and treat it. In your situation, it could be the T-Sulfa didn't eradicate all of the coccidiosis or the tetracycline didn't eradicate all of the URI. Or, it could be something else entirely.

Was this male housed with the hen while he was being treated for the coccidiosis and URI? Or, was he introduced to the hen afterwards? Did you give him probiotics after the medications?

Michele

H2015 · Post by **H2015** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:50 pm

Hi Michele!!

-- Since he's been courting a hen, has he started singing again or is no sound coming out still?

He was completely mute, not one sound. The hen however was responding with a sound.

Is his hunched, droopy winged posture the only sign indication that he may not be 100%?

Yes, and no sound comes out of him when he tries to sing, everything else seems to be fine.

Or, does he simply perch with no wing movement?

Yes, he doesn't flutter his wings at all - which I've seen one of my other birds do a long time ago when he was in a smaller hospital cage, I upgraded to a bigger one since.

In your situation, it could be the T-Sulfa didn't eradicate all of the coccidiosis or the tetracycline didn't eradicate all of the URI. Or, it could be something else entirely.

His droppings look perfect, there used to be blood, green, and undigested food but that is completely gone, I assume if he still has coccidiosis the problem would persist right?

As for URI, he still couldn't sing and that indicates that the problem isn't solved yet. Aside from the no-sound, hunched back, and droopy wings - there is absolutely no other sign.

So far I didn't use probiotics, I was supposed to add it tomorrow morning. When I treated with T-sulfa I treated all my birds for 5 days and then isolated the sick one and continued treating him for 5 more days. Then when treating tetracycline I used it for 3 days on everyone and then 2 more days for him.

Should I isolate him again and go back to using Tetracycline? Here's the composition of the one I use, it may not be strong enough:

Tetracycline............................................... 3.10 IU
Erythromycin............................................. 3.10 IU
Thiamine hydrochloride (vitamin B1)......... 40 mg
Riboflavine base (vitamin B2)................... 60 mg
Pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6)....... 60mg
Nicotinamide (vitamin PP)......................... 500 mg
Calcium panthothenate............................ 220 mg

Thank you so much Michele!!!!