Fantastic Finch Waterers At Last!!

[nelloyello11]

I've got to look for some big, strong, buckets -- I think drywall patch stuff comes in big old strong buckets -- can maybe get my husband to pick me up a couple...

Anna, if you can't find any to "recycle," most home stores (Lowes, Home Depot, etc) sell the big heavy duty buckets, I think for about $10 each. I think they call them painter's buckets or something to that effect.

I am finding this thread very helpful. I recently changed my cage set -up and have been trying to figure out what will work best for the water. When I first got my finches in December, I tried to get them to use the tube waterers, but they didn't seem to like them. I had considered the ball-valve ones but had heard of some people having problems with them sticking, etc.
Albert, I am very happy to hear that you have used them for several years without any major mishaps.
After reading this thread, I think I am going to try one of the smaller ones you suggested, Anna. My birds are right in my living room so I should be able to keep a good eye on them to make sure everyone is using them and that there are no issues!
Thanks everyone!

[annague]

Nelissa, I love this place, too. I can't tell you how much I've been helped by many of the people on the FF! I also think that some of us newer "Finchers" should look out for things that really help when you are brand new and then try to share them with the real new people too! Sometimes you forget how huge the learning curve can be.

You're right -- I can just buy a heavy duty bucket if need be. Probably what I'll end up doing since I think my husband threw the ones he was using away.

Be sure to come back after you use your BV waterer and give us a review on it. Remember, many birds have to be trained how to use these at first but they pick it up very quickly. I find I don't have to train fledglings to use the BV waterers -- the parents do it by example.

[nelloyello11]

Be sure to come back after you use your BV waterer and give us a review on it. Remember, many birds have to be trained how to use these at first but they pick it up very quickly. I find I don't have to train fledglings to use the BV waterers -- the parents do it by example.

I picked one up and installed it tonight! I am leaving the water dishes I have been using in there until everyone (hopefully) gets the hang of the new one!
I will report back to you and let you know how it goes!

[annague]

If the adults have never used, u might want to take a couple of them and press their beak against it so they can see how to use the water -- it might be good if u remove the water bowl at night and replace mid morning if u can. That way, in the early morning when they are the thirstiest they will be more motivated to give the new drinker a try.

[nelloyello11]

Thanks for the tip! I have 2 younger females who are usually very bold and investigative. The others seem to follow suit if they indicate good stuff. I will give them a couple days and if they don't figure it out, I will try that.

[lou]

just thought i'd put my 2cents in, I'm with Candice by putting my drinkers in a bucket with bleach over night. My L shaped drinkers are filled1/3 way up, the drinker gets recycled into the bucket with bleach, the water gets changed every 2 days. The only time that they start to smell is when I give them greens especially broccoli.
As far as bleach in the water no prob. 1/3 cap to 1 gallon of water, I have done this for 30+ years with my pigeons. No slim in their throat, no slim in the waterers
lou

[L in Ontario]

As per Robert G. Black 1 drop of bleach for every 2 ounces of water is the dosage to use. (I know lots of people that use bleach)

Be very careful with this dosage/treatment - it is meant to empty the gut of harmful bacteria and not for prolonged treatment (only 2 days, I believe). It is to be followed up with probiotics as well.

[debbie276]

Be very careful with this dosage/treatment - it is meant to empty the gut of harmful bacteria and not for prolonged treatment (only 2 days, I believe). It is to be followed up with probiotics as well.

His dosage for bacteria treatment is 1 drop per ounce of water for 3 consecutive days.

[monotwine]

Sorry don't have much to add to the main topic of waterers, though it is a laugh when watching birds reared on a ball valve system learn to drink from a tube drinker! My Owls breeder had everyone on a good quality ball valve system linked directly to water mains (no containers to clean) so they had fresh water on tap. They kept pecking the tube hoping water would come out. They learnt quickly enough.

Do you guys get a product called F10? Usually its only available through a veteranery shop or vet directly. That is miracle in a bottle. Kills just about everything and quickly. Seems to be one of the few that leaves no chemical residual in birds organs or muscles. Even so, I only add it to the drinking water if I have a problem / sick birds. I'm not fond of adding chemicals to their water as not enough research has been done on the long term effects. Most research is done on chickens and well they don't exactly live for as long as our finches.

JUST be aware with products like Virkon etc there is a "WET CONTACT" time period that is required for the active product to actually work. Virkon is one of the faster but as mentioned can be corrosive.
F10 I found to have the quickest kill rates and is 100% safe.
Bleach is one of the worst to put into the birds water IMO after talking about it with a chemist, but totally safe to use as a surface sterilant i.e. soaking tubes etc. Bleach is rendered inactive by a soapy detergent.

I did some searching on this a while back and this is what I found on the two best products available to me:
Virkon-S powder (Virkon-S used in a 1% solution with water)
Potassium peroxomonosulfate (peroxygen compounds, organic acids, surfactant and buffer)

Active against: 65 strains of viruses in over 19 viral families, 400 strains of bacteria and over 100 strains of fungi (animals and poultry strains). (Incl. Avian Influenza (H5N1), Newcastle Disease, Classical Swine Fever (Hog Cholera) and Foot and Mouth Disease.)

Pros: Solution is stable for 7 days at normal temp and storage conditions. Non-irritating at a 1% solution, can be used in hard water, on porous surfaces, at low temperatures in the presence of organic materials (soils etc). No evidence of resistance. Requires 5-10min contact to be effective.

Cons: Powder is corrosive, classified as an irritant, affected by high temperatures (denatures and oxodises). Requires concentration levels (1000ppm) to effectively work in drinking water.

Notes: Powder is corrosive and irritant to skin and eyes – No data is available of its persistence and degradability. Does it build up in the system and how long is it active for post application?

And
F10 SC
Benzalkonium Chloride
Active against: Bacteria, fungi, viruses and sporicidal

Pros: Very fast acting – kill times of 15sec to 15min exposure needed for viruses. Highly concentrated requires 1:500 ratio for disinfectant solution / 1:250 for sterilant. No residual build up detected in chicken muscles/organs, over 5 week period at 1:1000 and 1:250. Minimal chance of microbial resistance. Non-corrosive. Biodegradable. No adverse side effects on people, animals or on equipment and surfaces

Cons: Store out of direct sunlight. Difficult to obtain directly from supplier. Requires going through a veterinary practice/supplier which could inhibit cost although it is one of the cheaper with regards to dilution rates.

Notes:
Rendered inactive when mixed with other detergents or soaps.

[monotwine]

Sorry thats a whole lot of reading.

[debbie276]

BUT very well written!

[L in Ontario]

Be very careful with this dosage/treatment - it is meant to empty the gut of harmful bacteria and not for prolonged treatment (only 2 days, I believe). It is to be followed up with probiotics as well.

His dosage for bacteria treatment is 1 drop per ounce of water for 3 consecutive days.

Last post on page 3-
http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php ... F&start=30

Either way, we need to be careful with this.

[annague]

Lou, Thank you for joining the talk. That's probably why my tubes smelled a bit at times -- I give tons of greens (including broccoli) every day during breeding season.

Monique -- that is exactly the information that will help us on anti-bacterial agents! Thank you SO much for putting that information on this post -- we really do need to understand what we're exposing our birds to and whether there is build-up in the bird due to long-term exposure.

Everyone will have to make their own decisions based off their best judgement but I appreciate knowing the facts about Virkon-S and F-10 and I feel it could help me make better decisions down the road in the use of the chemicals available to me.

I should get on-line and look at the factual data on Listerine as well.

[Ursula]

Either way, we need to be careful with this.

I am wondering about this too. Why do you need bleach or anything else in the water if you are already using the water bottles that are keeping the water much cleaner, as you say.

I personally use bleach VERY sparingly and only if absolutely necessary. (For example on a wine spot on a white blouse... ) Bleach is very bad for the environment and I think the less is used the better.

I just change water daily and replace with filtered tap water, and once a weel I thoroughly wash/scrub all water containers in the sink with dishwashing detergent.

Does anybody else on the forum besides me NOT bleach the water containers and NOT put anything in the daily drinking water?

I really don't want to contradict all your experience, but as somebody said previously especially new members are here to learn and need to get different viewpoints. I guess everybody has to find out what works best for them.

Maybe I should also add that my aviary is indoors and not outdoors. If the birds are exposed to more diseases outdoors, maybe it IS necessary to sterilise everything more carefully? What do you think?

[monotwine]

Anna if I am not mistaken most of the mouthwashes are Ethanol based i.e. alcohol and fairly pointless in a water system. Some use the ammonium compounds similar to virukill. Virukill is another product I have used that I found no problems with. F10 just worked out cheaper and the kill rate exposure time was less.

Virukill / Sporekill / Terminator / Virukill avian (the same active ingredient distributed by different companies and sometimes in different concentrations)
Poly Dimethyl Ammonium Chloride 120g/L

Active against: Viruses, bacteria, fungi and mycoplasma family groups and works to some degree against algae. (Incl. Gumboro, Avian influenza & Pox, Newcastle Disease viruses, Streptococcus, Aspergillus and Candida)

Pros:
Inactivates non-enveloped viruses and has sporecidal efficacy. Not affected by high temperatures. Helps reduce internal pathogen load of throats and trachea without damaging mucous membrane. Non-corrosive. Excellent wetting and penetrating abilities. Test results show that it significantly outperforms other single and twin chain QAC’s in killing micro-organisms. 25% to 83% improvement in pathogen decrease when compared to other commonly used active ingredients. Stable in storage / solution. Effective over wide pH range and performs well in the presence of organic matter.

Cons: Requires 10-20min wet exposure to be fully effective. The presence of organic materials i.e. soils etc reduce its efficacy.

Notes: Most available information. Most of it is from the producers, but independent laboratory tests speak for themselves. *Seems also specifically geared towards bird/poultry diseases*
2.5l = 250L disinfectant