Petition for Gouldian Mills

[MLaRue]

Regarding the Marshall products from my OWN experience and from experience of several close friends – we find the product to be an excellent product for everything but the blue mutations. This is a widely known fact but few will step forward and speak the truth for several reasons.

I don’t want to go into detail on this thread as it would become extremely off topic to your original thread Candace. As it seems I’ve already taken it off topic…

[MLaRue]

I'm sorry Candace - maybe it's my computer but I just can't enlarge it and keep it legible. It gets all blurry. Not to worry, just thought I'd mention it.

I was not able to make it large enough to read either.

[CandoAviary]

Regarding the Marshall products from my OWN experience and from experience of several close friends – we find the product to be an excellent product for everything but the blue mutations. This is a widely known fact but few will step forward and speak the truth for several reasons.

Interesting... I had never heard this about blues. Wonder why that would be? Maybe the breeder's blue mutations weren't as hardy as their greens and yellows to start with ?
I do know I love Dr. Rob's books. I have learned much about the microscope and pathegens from his books and CDs. He has contributed greatly to the avian society that is why I thought about selling his products in my retail store Thanks for your opinion of this product

[nixity]

Presumptious? Never questioned the quarantine practice here. I do question why Carol's name is listed in print and linked with dying birds And discussing her feed.? She does use the full program of the Dr. Rob's products. Dr. Marshall's has decades of research and I feel it is a sound product... am I missing something about the Dr. Marshall's line? Don't some of the top breeders use and even sell this product? I have never used it, other than the S76, but was thinking about it.....

I am also not the one that brought up the Dr. Marshall programme but since you're asking, MANY breeders have had SERIOUS issues with his products and the blue mutation specifically. It is not my business to name names unless someone asks me upfront.

Ask Carol - I warned her UP FRONT about using these products with blues because I knew of the potential risk.

Yes, I know Carol quarentined the birds she got from the Man Florida Breeder. I also know that sometimes birds can be carriers and not show illnesses until they moult, breed, etc. How do you treat something you don't know they have...or don't know exactly what they may have.... Doing smears under the microscope, and even sending off samples to labs don't always show anything definitive. I'm sure all breeders have experienced this, I know I have.

This most recent bird that died had already molted quite successfully, she actually got him as a juvenile still in baby feathers.
Nobody can presume that any of these birds that died died from some kind of contained or hidden illness, and IMO a necropsy is pointless because they are never beneficial, so why waste the money.
The fact of the matter of is she has been VERY successful with the birds she has bred and the offspring she has produced. The one common denominator with the issues she's had with [her] birds [and I mean "her" loosely only because she "owned" them, but didn't "breed" them] have been from the birds that came from this breeder.

I know Carol plans on selling her birds and I know that, for me personally, anytime I see people discussing birds...with a name attached and in the context of birds dying..well I take note of the name and remember dying birds... And yes, I do presume possible problems. I also noticed that you don't mention the name of the Florida breeder..who you say has the problem birds. Seems just listing Carol's name is not necessary, and IMO actually harmful, and could cause some unwanted biased immpressions due to your post.

Carol's birds have nothing to do with the birds that were purchased from this FL breeder. If I said, Carol bought birds from so-and-so, and now all of Carol's birds are dying - then I could understand the presumed accusation that Carol infected her flock from birds bought from a breeder in Florida.
I am 99% sure that outside of this Silver male, every other bird she lost was lost while they were in Quarantine and going through a strict quarantine protocol, so before any of the birds ever even came into contact with her established flock.

Maybe this Silver male was a fluke - the only point I was making (or was trying to make, until her environment and everything else inadvertently got called into question) is it doesn't matter what a breeder tells you, you can't always trust them - because he clearly lied to both of us about the heredity of the birds we got.

I just prefer to see these problems discussed in private or annomously.... like saying her birds.... like you say his birds (referring to this awful breeder you say, yet remains unnamed)...
That way the people that know what the heck you are talking about already know... the people needing to know will ask... and the innocent people that bought bad birds won't get blamed for them.

What wasn't anonymous about it besides Carol's name? If I've somehow offended Carol by sticking up for her opinion that she was duped then I'm sure she'll come on and shred me to bits. I didn't list the FL breeder's name - but certainly, anyone who wants to know please PM or email me to my private account: nixity@gmail.com
I have OPENLY criticized him in the past and MISTAKENLY gave him a second chance.

Seems you think that the problem is the FL breeder that sent him to her. You stated that you got some from this breeder too, did they die? I know there was a third party, did hers die? Misty stated she got some from this breeder also with no problems. ?

What third party was mentioned? Am I missing something? In terms of the birds *I* bought - I only got ONE blue - the rest were Normals or Yellows (well, really, one yellow, because he botched the shipment and didn't send one of the birds I'd pre-paid him for!).
The blue I got, I was told he was a WB, he ended up being Dirty WB.

In contrast; Carol purchased 4 Silvers and 1 Blue, and I think after this Silver passed she doesn't have a single blue mutation left from this breeder. Maybe a Silver hen remains, I can't be sure. She paid extra for /Blue and Lilac birds that were not /blue and not possibly lilac

She seems it is enviromental conditions and not the birds shipped? I hope it doesn't hurt Carol's prospering gouldian business with her name being put out there in conection to this talk about someone elses birds that are not hardy.... many people read the forum and yes, many people are presumptious... or maybe just cautious about where they bring birds in from. What I read has a lot to do with who I buy from and to whom I sell to also. This is the main reason I don't ship to many... I sure don't want my named trashed if one of my birds happens to die. I deal with people that discuss problems with me... not the world wide web

If someone can explain to me how it would be environmental with just his birds, and almost exclusively with his blues, then please - I am all ears.
If not, then it's just added unnecessary talk/hypothesis.
I can't imagine it will influence her ability to sell her birds - it has nothing to do with her birds.
And as long as there are buyers who will purchase the crap birds from brokers then I absolutely don't think she will have any problems.
None of this was meant to reflect on Carol's birds or her environment.

The only point I was making is that sometimes it doesn't matter what a breeder/seller tells you because it's easy to LIE to make a sale. And frankly, he lied.

[MLaRue]

I think my using the word environment was obviously too broad. But knowing Marshall Products were in the mix it was the very first thought that came to mind as to why the blues might have been dying.

By environment I mean all factors – such as nutrition, hygiene, husbandry, current flock, temperatures, stress, and quarantine procedures, medications given or not given. It could be a slew of possibilities. Most know that new birds can be infected by our existing birds, leading to other problems. But if I understand the birds in question were kept away from the home for a period of time. So, this isn't a possibility.

I’m very sorry that both Carol and Tiffany had such a horrible experience with this breeder, it is very unfortunate indeed.

I think it should also be noted that the seller of these birds did try to do some right after mistakes were made and birds were lost. I do think he offered refunds and or other birds in place of his mistakes. I don’t know the fine details but in my experience with him, if I lost a bird within the first week I literally did not have to pay him for the losses.

I’ve also been told in person that Laraine and her sister do not offer others to sell the Marshall products because the margin of profit is not there to have a reseller under them. But perhaps they are looking into other options now.

[nixity]

I think it should also be noted that the seller of these birds did try to do some right after mistakes were made and birds were lost. I do think he offered refunds and or other birds in place of his mistakes. I don’t know the fine details but in my experience with him, if I lost a bird within the first week I literally did not have to pay him for the losses.

My understanding is that Carol never received any money for the birds she lost, even the ones that were lost shortly after she got them.
When she confronted him about the birds she paid extra for because she was told they were Lilac or /Blue and it turned out they weren't, he replied with "oh, then their parents must have been so-and-so.."

The only bird I received compensation for was the bird he failed to ship - and that may have only been because I stopped payment on my check when I realized the bird wasn't sent.

[betchacanthavejust1]

Regarding the Marshall products from my OWN experience and from experience of several close friends – we find the product to be an excellent product for everything but the blue mutations. This is a widely known fact but few will step forward and speak the truth for several reasons.

I don’t want to go into detail on this thread as it would become extremely off topic to your original thread. l've already taken it off topic…

I"ve been using the DM products since the middle of 2009. I've been told by others who have either seen my birds in photo's or in person that they look extremely healthy, have spectacular color & such tight feathers that they look painted on...

This is my first season to get any blue mutation babies...

I've currently got 6 blues, 1 silver, and 1 pastel ranging in age from 3 months to 7 months old.. (from hatch date)....

In addition to them, I have silvers and blues who range in hatch date age from sometime at the end of 2009, to Feb & April of 2010 that I purchased.

At what age should I expect to see "issues" with them using these products?

[CandoAviary]

Hey Carol Glad you finally joined the discussion about your birds
I am curious about this "Dr. Marshall's product" also. I can't for the life of me understand how it would be bad for blues/silvers but safe for greens and yellows. I would think it would be more likely that the blue lines these people have had are weak?

[nixity]

I think the speculation about the issues revolves around Vitamin A issues but since I have never used the product myself I can't say for certain.