Question for Experienced finchers on Cocciodosis

[cindy]

Hopefully she will find out soon what happened. I told her to either take the RCCB male in and or the sick bird and droppings. Often the vet can swap the vent and run a culture. Perhaps the vet can prescribe something strong enough to hault this quickly.

Our puppy came to us with it, a two week course of antibiotic, diligent cleaning of her potty area outside and a follow up test to make sure she was rid of it was required.

[finchmix22]

UPDATE ON FINCH DEATHS: O.K. for now, the vet has done a necropsy on the hen, but she has not found anything useful. She felt the tissue had deteriorated, even though I'd refrigerated them last night, I must not have done it quickly enough. But, I am taking her the third bird for fecal, other labs in the morning and also going to bring another random bird from the flight for her to check as well. She thought that with one with the wet vent and one that appeared fine, we could do fecals etc. to see if there are any differences. If something is moving through the flock, we may see the progression with the two I am bringing. Also, she stated that from what we told her, she was suspicious of a bacterial gut infection, but was not sure since other birds were not as ill as the first two. The only difference I can make is the OCW's were not breeding, but the RCCB's had just laid two eggs last week. Maybe the stress of laying and nesting was the difference. I hope to know more tomorrow. Meanwhile, I didn't know my daughter took a pic of the hen's vent prior to her death. See what you think.

[cindy]

It is good that you are taking them in for fecal checks...it will rule things out and give you peace of mind. Hopefully she can tell you what is going on and direct you in the right direction. Keep us posted.

[finchmix22]

We spent almost all day cleaning finch cages!! What a job. It took about five hours. We finally scrubbed and disinfected each bar and space in all the flights. I am exhausted. I just hope we can figure this out with the vet in the morning. She will see the two finches and do labs, fecal smears etc.

[cindy]

Hope you can get this resolved...glad you went to the vets!

[CandoAviary]

So sorry you are having to go throught this. Nothing is worse than having birds die...except for not knowing what it is that is making them sick. Prayiong that the fecals will give you some answers and less worries tommorrow.
Yes. the added stress of laying eggs and nesting can bring out underlying problems.Or due to the fact that they were breeding could of made them more suspectable to whatever is going around. Had you had the cbs long?

[finchmix22]

Candace,
I hgot them in January. I don't know how old they were though. They were the second pair I bought of rccb's to start a line of unrelated pairs of my own. Now, I'll have to get another pair, I guess.

[monotwine]

You doing the best you can. Good on you for seeking a vets help even if it has not been helpful thus far. Its the best you can do.

My birds look just like that when they have a gut infection. Is your vet doing fecal smears or stains? or both?

The Trimethaprim Sulfa would be similar to the meds I use. I tend to go via active ingredient and their grams active ingredient as I never find the same products you guys have. I use a product for chickens, but essentially its the same.
Its an old med that is not a cure all, but is broad spectrum. I've found it to be handy to have in my kit.

[cindy]

Interesting enough Cocci-care is written as a treatment with a statment that says "If bird does not respond or if condition worsens, consult a veterinarian" right on the bottle.

It is on several websites, they are repeating the directions on the bottle. Basicaly if one or more of the birds have it but is a carrier, showing no sign but "could be shedding it" and you are trying to rid them so they do not pass it on or later succumb to it use Cocci-care. The bird that is a carrier but not showing signs basically has it so in a way it (Cocci-care) can be regarded as a both a treatment and preventitive.

I also think it is wise to consult a vet to get help for cases that could possibly mimic the things like coccidia and giardia. Additional stronger meds may be needed to fight off certain diseases and parasites such as the ones Monique uses. If it is going through a flock a vet can provide treatments that will wipe it out faster.

Coccicare contains Amprolium which is a coccidiostat (an antiprotozoal agent that acts upon the Coccidia parasites) often used in poultry and Ethopobate which is a supplementary drug that improves the coccidiostatic effect of amprolium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccidiostat (mentions Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole also along with others)

I think some of the things that make it difficult in caring for a sick bird are some symptoms when presented can look a lot like one thing really but be another...helping these little birds is difficult and confusing at times. All we can do is treat with preventatives, feed a good diet, give them a clean safe environment and when ill do what we can for them.

[L in Ontario]

Thinking of you at the vet's this morning Deborah. Just wanted to say good luck and I hope it's not a worst case scenario.

[finchmix22]

UPDATE:
First, thank you everyone for your thoughts, prayers and comments. This has been a really stressful and sad time for our family. We have been at the vet most of yesterday and today with several finches, hand selected by me, to give the vet a sampling of the various flights and breeding cages etc. so she could get stool samples, cultures, etc. Well, here is the sad part, so far....

WE LOST ONE OF OUR SPICE FINCHES, WE DIDN'T EVEN THINK WAS SICK. He was to be my example of the finches that seem to be doing well in the flight, but he was apparently sick and died during the exam, right in the little plastic box they weigh them inside on the scale. The vet felt he was stressed and the underlying issues, which we are trying to resolve, was too much for the little guy. So, now we have lost three birds quickly in two days!!!

The other finch, an OCW, who had a wet vent and was given Metronidazole 25mg , administer 0.01cc by beak bid. She is also being given Ivermectin, one drop every two weeks. Interesting the dose is different than the bottle of Iverlux I have, which reads one drop on the neck every day for five days.

The two other Spice finches, one of which had a preening gland blocked and was given Cipro 12.5mg/cc 5 ml-1/2 oz. We give 0.01cc by beak bid for seven days. She also is getting Metacam 0.5mg/ml; and we give 0.02cc by beak bid for 14 days. The other Spice finch seemed to be fair, but looked ragged.
Then we took two Society's, one juvie and the hen. She always seems to have labored breathing and I've seen open beak breathing at times. The vet felt she may also have air sac mites, but she suggested we do a trial, with me administering my Iverlux to the ones I think are exposed to the OCW with air sac mites and keep that OCW on the vet's treatment schedule and see who does better. The vet was not aware of our ability to purchase the medications such as Iverlux, Cocci-Care, Amoxitex, etc. She was shocked these were available without a prescription. I told her about the finch forum and my experience with everyone helping with their advice as well as how many breeders purchase meds online such as at Morning Bird etc.

So, sorry this is so long. There is so much more we discussed. The main issue is the vet was not sure what is going on, but agreed there is something going through the flock that we need to contain. We are hoping the stools samples and cultures will give us a better idea, but for now we are assuming 2-3 different problems, that may co-exist: Air sac mites, Gut bacterial infection, Coccidiosis or other parasite.
I will update you all when we get test results back and/or something changes or new information is available. I really feel everyone here knew as much or more than the avian vet. So, what's up with that?
The vet took cultures for air sac mites and stool samples. We got stool samples from each cage, at least one or two birds' droopings, per cage/flight. They were bagged and labeled so the vet can test them and let us know if there are any parasites etc.
Finally,

[finchmix22]

Sorry, my post must have been too long and part of the end was cut off.
Finally, we are on a quarantine shut down at our house. All finches that are identified to have been exposed to the finches that died, are now in separate cages in another room with door closed and heat lamps. The rest of the finches are being given preventatively Cocci Care and Amoxitex. The rest of the finches from the open flight, where to rccb's, Spice, and OCW were housed, are going to get Iverlux from me, as well as the other treatments. Basically, we are treating everyone, as if they are brand new, strange birds and going through a quarantine medication cycle. UGH!
My biggest concern is our juvies, hatchlings, and eggs ready to hatch. What's the likelihood they will survive or not? Please offer any insight, suggestions, advice etc. I am so overwhelmed and do not want to lose any more finches!

[finchmix22]

Thinking of you at the vet's this morning Deborah. Just wanted to say good luck and I hope it's not a worst case scenario.

Liz,
Thanks for your thoughts and prayers. As you can tell by reading my post, we've been through the ringer today.

[L in Ontario]

I'm so glad you went to the vet but I'm sorry to hear you lost another bird. I'm not surprised the vet isn't sure what the cause(s) is (or are) as I think vet's in general are more experienced with parrots and other large birds rather than finches. Hopefully you will get some information from the tests. It sounds like the vet is doing the best they can.

This is a lot for anyone to go through - overwhelming, no doubt. I hope it resolves as quickly as possible, Deborah.

[finchmix22]

Thanks Liz. I appreciate your vote of support for our avian vet. She actually worked at the Dallas Zoo in the Finch Aviary prior to working in the practice. So, who knows. These are tough little guys to figure out.