Question for Experienced finchers on Cocciodosis

[cindy]

Hi Deborah...I am so sorry for all your losses. I am also glad that you have a avian vet that is very concerned and helpful. Hopefully soon all your finches and your household will be on the road to healing. Thinking of you.

[lovemyfinch]

So sorry you are having to go through this
Hopefully the vet will be able to come up with an answer and be able to put an end to whatever is going on

[cindy]

Just curious on the Cocci-care did the vet say it is ok to use with the nestlings and young? I asked this in another topic on Coccidia.

Deborah we are all praying and thinking of your family, your finches and you.

[finchmix22]

She said the ones that are not weaned are not big enough for regular medications, reference to the Iverlux. She did not address putting anything in the water relating to the fledglings and juvies and I did not think to ask at the time, as we were so surprised our Spice finch died. Even the vet was shocked. She did not expect anything but a normal exam with that one. I have to call her office tomorrow, as I was so stunned I also forgot to pay my bill and they forgot to direct me to the front desk to pay on my way out. We all were stunned and shocked as to the nature of this problem. The vet tech said she observed the finches throughout the day and noticed a few I was concerned about with labored breathing under normal exertion. She has Conures, but thought the finches behavior and history definitely fit air sac mites and maybe a intestinal parasite or infection. Still not sure which one. I am probably going to treat all finches tomorrow with Amoxitex and Cocci Care, plus a dose of Iverlux, except the young ones. She weighed the OCW as she was 9g. The vet was surprised, as she thought that by feel the finch seemed heavy. She was wondering if there was problem with fat in the diet from seeds, rather than pellets and not enough exercise. I also have Ronivet-12%. I don't know if I should use that unless others start to go downhill.

[cindy]

Keep us posted and if you need to chat let me know.

[finchmix22]

Cindy
I would like your thoughts and input, please. I want to do the right thing.

[cindy]

I think the best thing was going to the vets. I can imagine how overwhelming all this must have been. I'll get with you tomorrow. Try to get some rest, you must be exhausted.

[cindy]

Deborah, I re-read you write up on what happened at the vet's office visit. It is interesting that your vet and mine made mention about fat in a seed diet and it causing possible health issues.

Our lovebird was getting both seed and pellets, the fat in the seed actually caused a hormonal shift which caused her to produce eggs. She became eggbound (unknown to us since we assumed she was a he). We rushed her to the vet and found out he was definately a she and she was about to pass an egg. We almost lost her though this ordeal. All seed was removed from her diet and she got pellets only.

I am watching some of my older finches and the ones less active and am considering putting them on just pellets to see how they will do, if they become more active. The young ones and more active will have a mix of seed and pellets.

Has your vet recommended a diet change?

[CandoAviary]

Interesting enough Cocci-care is written as a treatment with a statment that says "If bird does not respond or if condition worsens, consult a veterinarian" right on the bottle.

It is on several websites, they are repeating the directions on the bottle. Basicaly if one or more of the birds have it but is a carrier, showing no sign but "could be shedding it" and you are trying to rid them so they do not pass it on or later succumb to it use Cocci-care. The bird that is a carrier but not showing signs basically has it so in a way it (Cocci-care) can be regarded as a both a treatment and preventitive.

You may want to use caution depending on coccicare as a treatment. The Morning Bird Home Page, the actual makers of cocci care state that it is a preventative. I know many sites that say differently... but I would go by the manufacters of the product.
http://www.morningbirdproducts.com/prod ... icare.html
I guess you could possibly treat coci with amprolium, but at a much higher dosage ... which there are safer and better treatments for cocci.
If you ever have a true outbreak of cocci, have a true treatment medication on hand. Just a word of caution

[finchmix22]

Cindy
The vet says they should all be on pellet only, gradual transition, plus veggies/fruits for treats. If given seed, it should be considered a treat, about a teaspoon at most. We are still waiting on labs regarding parasites and have treated all finches with Ivermectin for air sac mites. The fledges and juvies she said would be alright with a broad spectrum antibiotic in water or cocci care in water as a preventative. Yes, Candce, the vet said Cocci care is only a preventative, not a treatment. So, we are waiting for labs. I am just using it to help any finches that were not exposed preventatively and the young finches. She said it would be safe for them and could help them avoid illness.
So, now we wait for labs and cultures. That is the hardest part.
The one thing I learned about finches on this visit is preening glands can be obstructed and cause swelling, infection and they are hard to detect because the tail feathers usually cover them well. We only spotted our finch's swollen gland because it was so huge and looked like a tumor. The vet had to drain it and she is on antibiotics and something for swelling.

[cindy]

Deborah..yesterday I started another topic thread on Cocci-care and posed some questions regarding the fact that right on the bottle it states what it does about the bird not responding or getting worse.

Tiffany and I chatted back and forth on this and the ingredients in Cocci-care acts as a kind of a GRI...growth regulator inhibitor. Som flea medications and sprays contain a GRI. Interesting because they use this same idea in controling mosquito larvae from growing and maturing, they use a BTI (Bacillus thuringiensis israelenis).

So treating with Cocci-care is like stunting, retarding/haulting the parasite from maturing within it's host.

This is the link to the topic
http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15061

[finchmix22]

Cindy,
One thing I noticed today is that a different OCW is lethargic and having trouble breathing with poor tail feathers. She can barely perch. I remember someone saying that once you treat with Ivermectin, the mites can die and block the airway? I think that is what's happening with this finch. Is there anything I can do?

[cindy]

Deborah...I had trouble getting on to the forum, the server was down. Personally I do not have experience with air sac mites. Does your vet have an answering service that can contact her. In the mean time I'll try to look up what you can do. Keep a heat lamp on it.

[cindy]

on this thread it states that the bird actually gets worse before it gets better when starting the treatment.

http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php ... +treatment

this may help to
http://www.avianweb.com/airsackmites.html

[finchmix22]

Thanks Cindy,
Those articles helped my daughter to see we are doing everything we can right now. She has been "hysterical" today. She is just so upset we are losing so many and we all feel we have let down our finches. We have heat lamps, steam, and regular checking by us. We may need to tube feed tonight if she continues to weaken.