Fresh seed vs store bought seed...Guess the results?

[debbie276]

Cindy,
Found an old thread that explains what I mean. Maybe Bill can elaborate some more.
http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php ... 53&start=0

A study done at the Save the Gouldian Fund about 5 years ago was in finding the perfect seed blend (or so they thought). They placed catch trays under the seed hoppers and had research assistants examine every hull and uneaten seed tossed out as chaff. After 3 or 4 weeks of examination they determined which seeds were being eaten and which were not (some seeds were completely ignored, some were eaten occasionally, some eaten heavily). They then offered only a blend of the seeds that had been eaten either occasionally or heavily (omitting the uneaten or mostly ignored seeds).

As a control exercise after 3 months they offered the original blend that had been studied, and to their amazement, the selection order was completely different, with some of the omitted seeds now being eaten (some quite heavily). The lesson learned was that the birds needed an opportunity to select, and that their needs will vary over time. What they may ignore now, they may need later. The best thing you can do is offer a wide variety of fresh seeds and let your birds make the final decision.

[cindy]

Debbie we plan on trying seeds at different ties of the year to see what is most liked. For the birds housed indoors their tastes and needs might be different than those housed outdoors. Nancy had a wide selection of seed. We are trying 4 more new ones tomorrow. I am going to pick those up from her and offer them in separate small dishes. For several days to see what is desired.

I personally will not blend my seeds since the owls, lavanders and GS prefer something a bit different than the zebra and shaft tails.

The niger and any oily seed will be offered again as the weather changes.

My birds are still offered pellets and it is being eaten but not at the rate that they were eaten before. Also they get a powdered eggfood by ABBA with ground Roudybush in it. I have one pair right now with chicks in the nest, they are going for the fresh seeds offered, ignoring the store brand and egg food and feeding there young the pellets and fresh seeds. This is a zebra pair, the dove proso and both brown top and Japenese millet are being fed to the young...they have huge crops backed full of the new seed.

We are also going to grind a soybean, oats and peredovics up to a fine powder and offer it to the birds with young along side of their other foods. These are high in protein, vitamins and minerals. We found that the chopped version did not get eaten as much as the powdered version.

Many leading experts that raise show dogs also recommend a varied diet. Animals, birds even people need a varied diet to remain healthy. Our thing right now is to get a base mix then play around with seed to see what is liked at different times of the year based on how you house your birds and what species you have.

[Foosa101]

Sorry everyone..I've been extremely busy here lately and haven't been able to respond with much.

I see that some are concerned with their birds not receiving an ample variety of seeds for their birds/finches and I completely understand. I am not suggesting ruling out all other sources or mixes but simply trying to offer a base finch mix that will have little waste. I cannot vouch for every breed but I have reviewed many of the different seeds blends that are out there and their "molt mix" or their "nesting mix" and to be honest I do not see a significant variation in the ingredients. Basically, they are the same seed varieties but it seems they increase the amount of oily seeds for the seasons the birds are under more stressful conditions. This increase is very little and still does not appear to be eaten, at least by my birds.

Once we get this mixture sorted out, I still discourage alienating other seed varieties but not offering them as the staple diet if they are not eating them. This way they will still have the variety that has been predetermined for them; however, you will have less waste on the more costly "premium" finch mixes.

Again, I cannot vouch for all breeds but the results of what Cindy and I's finches.

I hope this post makes some sense as I am trying to type this as fast a possible and then get back to work. Love you guys...just really busy this week. Let me know how things go!

[cindy]

Nancy has sent out many bags of seeds to those interested...if you have received your bags and tried them, please post the results here so she and I can figure out what is the seed choice of your birds and please include whether you house the birds indoors or outside and what birds liked what.

Waxbills might like something different than say zebras or societies. We would like to also know what your species prefer.

[fabulousfinch]

Hi everybody,

Deb, you've pretty much got it covered from your posting above. I might also add this paragraph from my old thread:

"Now, an experiment as described above will only work if all seeds are fresh viable seeds. If a potentially favored seed in the blend is stale or has become rancid (typical of black oil seeds) they will move on to something less desirable but that is at least fresh."

In general, 2011 White Proso will be chosen over 2010 White Proso, and 2011 Jap Millet will be chosen over 2010 Red Siberian, etc.

And let me say "Hooray for Nancy" for describing the difference between "seed grade" and "feed grade" seed! Most commercial bird seed is "feed grade."

This is a great thread and I might offer a few other tidbits. The black oil seeds such as niger, lettuce, and rape are very high in lysine and methionine, the "molting" amino acids that help in feather development. That is why they appear in breeding and molting blends; to assist in the feather development of nestlings and adult feather development during the molt. This is in addition to the more potent energy package the oil seeds provide per gram of seed to help during the stressful times of breeding and temperature variation, or just being a nestling growing up

Another variable to look at during your experiment beyond species and indoor vs outdoor is what else is in the cage with the birds. Maybe this was already mentioned, but two owl finches owned by different breeders may well have different eggfood formulas, greens, vitamins, etc. in the cages which may lead to different seed selections depending on their captive diet.

Good luck and I'll stay tuned!

Bill

[Foosa101]

Another variable to look at during your experiment beyond species and indoor vs outdoor is what else is in the cage with the birds. Maybe this was already mentioned, but two owl finches owned by different breeders may well have different eggfood formulas, greens, vitamins, etc. in the cages which may lead to different seed selections depending on their captive diet.

This is an excellent point as well and even with my little flock I can tell that they desire different things when it comes to egg food, veggies, fruits, and vitamins. And, I, definitely agree that it comes down to what the bird/finch, or any animal for that matter, is familiar with or raised on. This being the reason that there cannot be one mix for one breed; however, there can be a basic mix that will accommodate a staple diet for our birds, without fillers or other seeds, that can be bought in larger quantities, at lesser a price, while also providing another, more premium mix, that can be offered in lesser quantities to increase the quality of digestible nutrients during those more stressful times. Thus cutting down on our expenditures and making ourselves and our feathered friends happy.

[Foosa101]

hi tiffany
you are supposed to give it to your birds ,no seriously i used to use japanese millet as a treat seed for my breeding pairs because of course it was imported and cost a small fortune copared to other seeds,as was teazle it seems that in this country all the seed that was good for your birds was very pricey.....the only seed that we grow here naturally is rape seed and groats which are all very cheap and not much benefit as a seed you could give seperately


ken

Millets, being the majoirty of most bird/finch mixes, are very sensitive to photo-periods, or day lengths, and are mainly grown in more southern regions of the world and then have to be imported into more northern regions which causes the price to skyrocket. I wish I could help in this matter but exporting, like any dealings with the government, cost $$$.

[cindy]

EFinch posted on their Facebook wall how long stems of millet are harvested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Gqjo90DDU.

[Foosa101]

EFinch posted on their Facebook wall how long stems of millet are harvested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Gqjo90DDU.

Great video I assumed that was the only way to harvest the sprays.

[MLaRue]

Nancy - Cindy,

I got the seed today Thank you!

Looks absolutely awesome! Will do the trials this weekend but really I already know it is going to be a winner with my flock ;)

Here are the pictures:


Red Broomtop by LaRue Photos, on Flickr


Japanese Millet by LaRue Photos, on Flickr

I'm ready to place an order!!!

[cindy]

Misty...bet the birds will love it. When I gave mine the choice of the two she sent you, the Japanese millet with the the little green seeds is what they went to first then to the brown top. I also offered a dove proso. It was funny to see the owls go from dish to dish then back to another dish....it was like children at Christmas time!!!

I am going to Nancy's today or early tomorrow to pick up A Lot of seed. I'll bring back 3 new ones to try ~ Red millet, German Foxtail millet and a white millet like in some of the mixes for finches/parakeets.

Keep us posted.

[Foosa101]

Nancy - Cindy,

I got the seed today Thank you!

Looks absolutely awesome! Will do the trials this weekend but really I already know it is going to be a winner with my flock ;)

Here are the pictures:

[ [url=http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6068/6101663081_b7153aa736.jpg] ][/url]
Red Broomtop by LaRue Photos, on Flickr

[ [url=http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6192/6101663075_ab11f02f31.jpg] ][/url]
Japanese Millet by LaRue Photos, on Flickr

I'm ready to place an order!!!

I am so glad to hear that you are happy and please let me know how your feathered friends like it.

[finchmix22]

O.K. I got the seed yesterday and my finches has not touched the three seeds at all. I did not give them a choice, but put the new seeds on a paperplate alone. They may have eaten some and I cannot tell, but there is still a whole plate left this morning. I put the Japanese Millet and the Brown Top Millet next to each other. I think they ate some of the Brown top, but none of the Japanese. Today, I gave them those two again plus some Proso. Maybe they are so used to the mix I gave previously, they don't recognize these as seeds? They do look very different from what they finches are used to eating. I'll try this for a few days before I give up, as I know finches do not like new food items and may need time to get used to this different looking food.
Also, I just reviewed the previous posts again and my finches are housed indoors. They are still going to their seed/pellet mixture, which is on the other side of the flight. They are looking for whatever they like on the floor of the cage, which I'm guessing means they don't want to eat the new seeds on the paper plates.

[cindy]

Deborah...if they are use to a certain area where you put the seed place the new seed next to the older mix you use....it may look foreign to them....give it a few days and see what they do.

[nixity]

Maybe they're terrified of the paper plate? Have you ever used a paper plate in their cage before?