Still seems behind...*sad news...:(*

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Ravyn
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Still seems behind...*sad news...:(*

Post by Ravyn » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:30 pm

Hey all :) For everyone that's been following my gouldian breeding drama you'll be familiar with the set-up. If not, the short of the matter is this.

I had a pair of societies and a pair of goulds who bred roughly around the same time, and accidentally (my oops). The societies laid two eggs, one hatched and grew into a beautiful little chocolate pied I call Baby. The goulds laid seven eggs, all of which hatched, but in a week Mama started pitching the chicks. So I moved the goulds out and into a flight cage and put the chicks under the societies.

Through a series of events, all but two of the chicks died. The two remaining chicks, Trooper and Jaws, are still alive. Baby, who became a moocher, was moved into his own cage and recently into the flight cage.

Okay, now for the update and my questions.

Update: Jaws, eating and drinking on his own and flying all over like a veteran, started picking on Trooper, who still seemed behind. I moved jaws into the hospital cage where he's been doing fine on his own. Next week I plan to move him into the flight cage.

Last night I took the bird bath out of the flight cage to give it a good scrub. Baby (who loves the bath, like most societies), went and sat on its stand in confusion as if he couldn't understand why the bath was gone. Then he started to make a strange noise. I turned off the water and went over and listened closely. Given his attitude I quickly realized what was happening. He was trying to sing! Though clearly out of practice and out of key. Given that he's in with a pair of goulds and no dominant society male this makes me about 99% sure that Baby is a boy.

Trooper, however, has been a source of concern. When I moved Jaws out of the breeding cage I noticed that Trooper didn't seem to be continuing to develop his feathers. She (I'm fairly sure she's a she) looked fairly ragged and spent most of her time in one spot, puffed and sleepy. Her keel felt sharp as well. Everything that I read suggested 'failure to thrive' which most sites attributed to bacterial infections. I started adding antibiotics to the drinking water in the hope that if there was an infection happening they'd take care of it. I also added in some feather fast to the food hoping that would help give her a boost and help her finish fledging out. Though I keep my room very warm as a rule I turned up the heat some more and slept in the living room. Sure enough by the next day, she seemed more active and alert. She's now on her third day of antibiotics, her keel doesn't feel nearly as sharp as it did, her feathers have mostly finished filling out, and she seems to be energetic. I have probiotics on hand to administer once the antibiotic is done in two days.

My question and concern comes with her behavior. Though she has been out of the nest now nearly two weeks, she makes little to no effort to fly or perch. She eats heartily on her own, and while I have yet to see her drink from the dish when the societies bathe and scatter water everywhere she quickly goes and sucks up the droplets. She will flutter from the ground to the food dish (which has been set on the ground) and perch on the edge though she seems to prefer simply sitting in the food. yet she makes no effort to sit on the lowest perch (which is only half a centimeter higher than the dish). She seems wobbly when she does perch. She will chase the societies around the cage begging if they are on the higher perches, but she remains on the ground. She seems extremely clumsy, far clumsier than Baby or Jaws ever were. If she does try and flutter up any higher she ends up falling onto her back and flopping around a bit until she gets righted. Once she kind of gave up and just laid on her back and cried...the mother society actually came down and fed her while she was sprawled on her back. Then she managed to right herself.

Has anyone else experienced this? Could she be clumsy due to whatever bacterial infection she may have had? Is there anything I can do to help strengthen or encourage her?
Last edited by Ravyn on Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

FeatherHarp

Post by FeatherHarp » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:39 pm

I am of no help here but just wanted to let you know I am hoping somebody will give you some advice. What a time you are having with the new babies! :(

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Post by Sally » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:34 pm

You have my sympathies, Ravyn, you have certainly had your share of problems with these finches. I have never experienced what you are going thru with this baby, so am not much help. I do believe that Gouldians are much slower to mature and wean than other species. I wonder if the Society parents are giving this little one enough food--appearing so thin, it doesn't seem so. I can't remember if you have tried handfeeding, but this one may need some extra help. Does she eat any food on her own, or just wait to be fed by the fosters? I have read that sometimes Society fosters will stop feeding a baby when they think it should be weaned, whether it is or not. Her inability to fly may just be that she isn't strong enough yet. Is this one of the ones that was smaller to begin with?

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Post by Ravyn » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:45 pm

Yes, this is one of the ones that was smaller. Feeding isn't an issue. Even when she was appearing puffed and listless she was eating on her own. She eats very enthusiastically and has a crop so full it looks like it will pop every time I see her. However despite this she was still losing weight which made me think 'failure to thrive'. That really has improved since giving the antibiotics, she's put on weight and her feathers have grown far more full, its just her clumsiness now that I'm most worried about. Even when Baby and Jaws were just fluttering and hopping around they never were so uncoordinated that they landed on their backs, or didn't flip immediately over if they did. She will struggle for a while to get back to her feet and seems more concerned with simply staying on the bottom of the cage rather than even trying to get higher. Within a day out of the nest Jaws and Baby were chasing the parents all over the cage...she's been out nearly two weeks and is still so uncoordinated.

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Post by L in Ontario » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:05 pm

Aww I feel so bad for her and have no idea what could be holding her back. Maybe 'natures way'??? I hope she comes around soon.
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Post by moe moe2 » Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:39 am

sorry wrong thread

rav i hope your baby turns out ok keep up the good work and all the love im reading and learning from you

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Post by Fancie Flight » Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:25 am

Awww good luck with the little one hope all ends well.
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Post by Ravyn » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:58 pm

I'm starting to wonder if it isn't neurologic. She is still on the bottom of the cage, and while watching her closely yesterday I realized she tends to only hop around sideways. Meaning, to get where she wants to go she gives little hops to either the left or the right, hardly ever backward or forward, even if where she wants to get to is right in front of her. When she DOES try and go forward she almost immediately spills on her face and lands on her back, then has to flip back to her feet.

She can get up onto the rim of the food dish ok, it rests directly on the floor now. She tried a few times to go from the edge of the food dish onto the lowest perch but every time she attempted it, she missed badly and landed on her face or her back again. Its almost like she flips forward in mid hop.

She CAN grip with her feet. I've had her sitting perched on my finger before (my hand resting on the cage floor so if she does fall its not far), and while her grip seems strong she has a tendancy to start sliding off backward or wobbling to where she can't stay holding on and falls. She's been eating on her own forever (though she still begs the societies now and again) and I'm pretty sure she's drinking on her own too though I have yet to see her do it. Both food and water dish are on the ground so she can reach them. I'm afraid to move them any higher in case she just can't get to them and ends up starving or dehydrating, but at the same time I almost want to to motivate her. However if she DOES have some sort of physical or neurological problem I don't want her to die because she is simply unable to do what I'm asking of her.

Oh, and if it helps, she's thirty-eight days old today.

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Post by Fancie Flight » Sat Mar 01, 2008 3:37 pm

Raven thats so sad, I hope she will be ok,

what I would do is get awooden ladder and set it in there at an angle so she can kinda hop up it step by step, leave her dishes where they are but also place more at the top of the ladder area,

maybe with a special treat up there,
perhaps hopping from step to step will help her get stronger, and dont worry birds who cant fly or who can't can still live happy lives,

I have a handicapped cage and ya just care special for them,
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Post by Ravyn » Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:02 pm

She's been through so much I decided long before this that she is staying with me. Jaws already has a home waiting. If it comes down to her having her own cage with a companion and everything on the floor where she can reach it, then that is what she shall have.

After all the myriad problems with this clutch, however, I'm seriously debating whether to pair Bonnie and Clyde up again or whether to try them with different mates next go round. Trooper is never getting bred, however. If any of her problems have been genetic I don't want to pass them on.

That's a good idea about the ladder. I actually have one that's not being used right now as the 'tiel boys didn't like it. I'll give that a scrub and see if that helps her.

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Post by Ravyn » Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:35 pm

Good news! She's perching!

I thought maybe a smaller cage would help her feel less 'intimidated' about space. Since she was eating (and drinking, I caught her!) on her own and seems to have been doing so for a while, I took Jaws out of the hospital cage and put him in the aviary with the two parent societies, Baby, and the parent Gouldians. So far they're doing fantastic in there.

Then I moved Trooper into the hospital cage which is much smaller. That was last night. This morning when I woke up she was sitting in the food bowl, but after I'd gone and watered and fed the other birds and came back in, she was sitting on the lowest perch pretty as you please. Since then I've watched her hop up and down from the perch to the food and water bowls. She still seems a little clumsy but seems to be getting more of the hang of her own body, if that makes sense. And she seems pleased as punch with herself. I'll keep her in there for a bit and when she's fluttering all over the small cage with confidence I'll move her back into the larger breeding cage. As soon as she's fine in there and navigating it like a pro I'll try her in the aviary with her family.

But things are looking up!

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Post by Fancie Flight » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:54 pm

whoo hoooo yea for her, Thats great news, I'm sur eshe will keep geting better daily keep us posted though PLEASE
" Nothing is harder to do gracefully than getting off your high horse"

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Post by jabo322 » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:10 pm

Whew, glad to hear she's perching. That has to be such a relief for you. Please keep us posted about Trooper's progress.
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Post by L in Ontario » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:55 pm

Excellent news! Keep on growing little one. :D
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Post by Fancie Flight » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:51 am

here I am for an update and nothing lol Ill check back in tomorrow, Hope shes much improved again,
" Nothing is harder to do gracefully than getting off your high horse"

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