Cordon to Gouldian ?

[Diamond Sparrow]

look at the light yellow underbelly idicating they are both hen Gouldians,If they were a darker brighter yellow they would be a cock

[monotwine]

I agree two Gouldian hens.

I try think of hybridization this way:
What justice are you doing to a species in captivity? How many thousands of wild caught birds died to bring a pure species into aviculture. Why oh WHY would we discard their sacrifice to create worthless mules/hybrids?
IF you had a sanction on bird trade put in place tomorrow (something most countries have hanging over their heads) what worth have you to contribute to the future of a species in aviculture.

Personally I'd feel far more content with my hobby and it's impacts with keeping genetically varied, straight species than hybrids.

[DanteD716]

IF need be, IF there was a shortage of birds, I would try to contribute and help. But, there is not. I am planning on breeding a society to a zebra to see if the babies will live. If you're responsible you can control what happens with all of the young. I plan on keeping all of the young, with the exception of one or two that may go to my uncle as a gift if he wants one. The purpose of creating hybrids for me is curiosity. Society finches are hybrid themselves and they are now considered their own species. People breed canaries to goldfinches, beautiful birds who sing great come out. Hybrids can be used as pets.

[PrettyBird]

I respect everyones point of view. I dont agree with breeding two different species to get a "cool" hybrid. To me that just feels wrong, and shouldnt be done. JMO.
Lets all just leave it at that before people get cross ;)

[DanteD716]

Sounds like a plan. Lol, I agree, to make a cool bird or great singer by hybridizing is wrong. I'm curious and these will most likely be the only hybrids I create.

[Cath1068]

I am so sorry that this got out of hand..... Could a moderator please lock this thread ? To me it has gotten out of control when Dante said he " wanted to breed hybrids just to see if they live". That is wrong in all aspects of gods creatures. That statement upsetted me and I feel this thread is no longer useful.

So sorry
Cath

[kenny66]

I am so sorry that this got out of hand..... Could a moderator please lock this thread ? To me it has gotten out of control when Dante said he " wanted to breed hybrids just to see if they live". That is wrong in all aspects of gods creatures. That statement upsetted me and I feel this thread is no longer useful.

So sorry
Cath

This topic causes heated passions, for and against-It would be good if there was a way to get this topic "on the table" some way like the poll about using society finches. I think an open discussion on this subject could be very educational, especially for new members. Locking the thread just to shut down discussion on a subject of interest to so many people seems counter productive-cant we have a discussion about this like adults. I for one, am really interested in evreyone's view, no matter what it is.

[DanteD716]

It has not aggravated me. Also, I'm not doing it to see if they live. I'm doing it out of curiosity. If they live, great, if not, I will no longer try. I want to know if they would survive though. ps, I'm not a religious person...

[DanteD716]

Also, thank you Kenny. People do not need to lash out against this subject. I know most are against it. But, if people are responsible, I see no problem in my opinion.

[Ursula]

Also, thank you Kenny. People do not need to lash out against this subject. I know most are against it. But, if people are responsible, I see no problem in my opinion.

I agree with Kenny. And although I am not in favor of hybrids I have to agree with Dante, as long as the hybrids are not being sold I don't see any harm in breeding some. I have 2 RCCB/BCCB hybrids that I inadvertently created by not knowing the difference between these 2 species when I bought them. Beginners error and you can blame me for not educating myself enough beforehand. However, i found out eventually, and will for sure keep them. I didn't intend to sell them anyway because I don't breed for breeding sake but because it was nice to let my pet birds have offspring once. So they will stay with me (and not breed) until the end of their lives.

[monotwine]

Cath I don't think anyone is angry. Its a decent debate on the pro's and con's along with peoples concerns or opinions about hybrids. Everyone has their point and mature people can handle a discussion.

I'm glad for you that you read up more on your birds and made your decision. I sure hope you enjoy many more days of your birds bathing antics.

[Sally]

Your Cordon Bleu is a BCCB male, from what I can see in the photo. A BCCB male is the only CB that has a completely blue head, the other species have some brown on top of their head. A BCCB hen will have some brown on top of her head too, so this is not a BCCB hen.

Most people on this forum are already aware of my feelings about hybrids, it is not a good thing. There are some crosses that have been done through the years to improve song, color, etc., but when it is only done to see what kind of oddity you can produce, I just don't get it. Each species should be appreciated for its own unique beauty and qualities. And breeders always say they will inform future buyers or keep them for themselves, but circumstances change. People lose jobs, move, even (gasp) die, and those hybrids suddenly are on the market being purchased by buyers who have no idea that they aren't getting the real thing. I've been the victim of a few of these hybrids when I first started with finches, and it was not fun.

The Cordon Bleu is a species that is victim to a lot of careless or uninformed breeding, and I would urge all owners of this species to be very careful to keep the three species of Cordon Bleu separate and distinct.

[Sally]

Cath, don't feel bad about this discussion--debate is always good, as long as it stays civil, and we can all learn somethng from it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and one purpose of debate is trying to get others to change theirs!

And I understand that those who have hybrids (and I do) think that they will always control what happens to them. However, things happen. This was brought home to me when my nephew commented that when I am gone (I am 70, so this is becoming a reality), he didn't know what to do with all these birds, should he just turn them loose?! I realized then that I had to make plans, have contacts ready, responsible people who would help him place these birds in the proper homes. Otherwise, the hybrids I do have may wind up in some poor unsuspecting breeder's program.

And as far as there being no shortage of birds, those of you who are young are unaware of the situation in aviculture just a decade ago. CITES was in effect in Africa, and all African species were difficult to find and expensive--can you imagine paying $125 for a Goldbreasted Waxbill? I paid that. Most brokers and breeders of African species feel that imports will stop, sooner rather than later, and then we will have only what is already in the country.

[DanteD716]

I'm glad we can have a civil discussion. If I do breed the two together, I will probaly use them as fosters. And pets. I have no worry about moving, or losing a job, or dieing, I'm only 14... But I will keep these birds in my own provate possession for the rest of their lives. I'm also glad people who do not like hybrids aren't lashing out. I think I may not breed them because of what everyone has said. I'm still thinking about it, I admit.

[kathmcm]

Ah, 14. I wanted a horse (a bay Arabian, no less) more than anything in life, and was absolutely convinced I could and would take complete responsibility for its care. Lucky for me and the horse I wasn't put to the test, as things change quickly in teens and twenties. No way would I have believed anyone who told me that at the time, though.

As for bird nature rather than human nature, there is so much to enjoy and learn from the species that evolved naturally, without risk of unintentionally introducing hybrids into their gene pool.