Gouldian Acting Different

[birdclaws]

My gouldian started moulting a week or two ago. Ever since, he's started acting a little bit different. I noticed that his flying was a bit more sloppy than normal. There have been a couple of times where he's been eating seeds from the bottom of the cage, goes to fly back up to a perch and doesn't fly straight, and has hit fallen back to the bottom of the cage. I thought, maybe because he's molting, maybe his feathers are just thing and not supporting him like they would normally...but it's almost like his balance is off... Now he's starting to turn his head sideways a lot, and I'm getting worried.
This is the first time my gouldian has molted as an adult, so I'm not sure if this is just a side effect of molting...
I took a video of him to have a better visual of what I'm talking about.
Nothing has changed as far as diet/housing.
He may be due for a dose of scatt, but I hope it won't make him worse if he is weak from molting.

Would appreciate any insight...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuz5azuTHmw

[ac12]

I would not use SCATT unless he has ASM.

Put a heat lamp on the cage so he can get warm if he feels he needs it. If he hangs around the lamp a lot, that is a hint there may be something wrong.

[birdclaws]

Things have gotten worse. I figured I would separate him from the mixed flight so he can rest. Went to get him out of the cage and he fell to the bottom and kept rolling over in circles. It looks similar to twirling/stargazing.

I see LadyG recommends Medistatin and Trimethaprin Sulfa. Anyone have experience with these? I am low on money this week, I'm not sure if I can afford both.

I have him with heat lamp and thrive in his water.

[finchmix22]

I would get both is possible, but the Trimethaprin Sulfa may be the better choice, if you only get one. I know they're expensive. I still don't have the Medastatin yet. I think there are old posts here on Stargazing treatments. I think you need to treat ASAP for a positive result. Good Luck and keep us updated.

[birdclaws]

I ordered both and I hope they get here in time. Could not afford rush shipping in addition to the medication. He is not any better or worse today. I've lined the bottom of the cage with a towel to prevent him from hitting his head on anything. I put a little garlic in his water and have the heat lamp on.
He is still able to hop up three perches, though I may take them out and leave just one low to the cage. I've sprinkled seed on the bottom of the cage and he been eating. Haven't seen him drink yet though. I hope I don't have to force feed him, the normal "afraid of the human hand" reaction is now just him landing on the bottom of the cage and rolling over. I may get some of the ornacyn plus antibiotic from petsmart and see if that helps any.

It's so awful to watch him. It would be one thing if he was showing signs of being sick, but he is still singing a little, and acting like himself, with these random spurts of head twisting and not being able to fly like he wants. He's my first gouldian, I really hope he makes it...

[finchmix22]

I just watched the video and it looks like the start of the Stargazing and/or other neurological issues. I read that the Stargazing can be due to an inner ear infection, thus the medications recommended. The sooner you treat him the better chance he will have of recovery. There is a thread on here about Stargazing, but I don't know how to copy it correctly. You can search for Stargazing/Twirling and it should come up. Good LUck.

[nixity]

To me there is a definitive difference between Stargazing and Twirling.

Star-gazing is predominantly a non-permanent neurotic behavior that usually happens as a result of taking a bird from a large enclosure and placing it into a much smaller one - especially if there is over head lighting or an open top. Some birds do it temporarily as if to get their bearings, other birds housed in small enclosures do it as a periodic neurotic behavior (usually as a result of stress) kind of like how horses or elephants will sway in stalls, or horses that crib.

It's not genetic or a congenital problem it's just an annoying bad habit.

Twirling can be either medical or genetic or both and I've almost never seen it get better. It seems like the instances where it's infection based are few and far between. It seems to carry down lines (genetic predisposition) and in most cases the symptoms if they're going to be there show up between 1-2 years of age although I'm sure this isn't all encompassing, there's always outliers.

Unfortunately this looks like the start of Twirling to me as I've seen it in one of my own birds

I wish you would have contacted me - I could have given you Medistatin and a similar medication to TMS so you wouldn't have had to order it, not that I think either will really help, but it's worth a shot. With the whole fungal infection the problem with Medistatin is it works by coming into direct contact, and if this is inner ear treating with Medistatin is moot because it's oral.
You would need something that is a systemic fungal treatment - like fluconazole (sp?) which you'd have to get from a vet.
I've heard that the aquarium anti-fungals are sometimes effective as a systemic treatment and I have them, but I've never used them.. I'm a little terrified to be honest.

I think the best thing is to keep him comfortable and warm.
I had a twirler that I gave away as a companion bird and she lived for about 8 months after she started twirling.
You have to be able to make changes in your cage to accommodate them once it progresses and generally stress enhances the episodes (the rolling in circles on the ground, etc.).

It's pretty much the worst thing ever to watch.. it's like watching someone having a seizure, since you feel helpless like there's nothing you could do.
Luckily my little girl had a fantastic loving home until she passed, and they contacted me about it.. they were very sad to have lost her.

[PrettyBird]

Oh wow, Ive never seen this except on the LG site. I does look like the start of Twirling.
I wish you luck with this one

[ruler]

i have a male red face gouldian that stargazes, i found that it only seems to do it hen in a small cage or if there is a bird/s in the cage with him he feels uncomfortable with. i know little about twirling/stargazing but i have seen a few video's of it and some look so servere its heart breaking to watch.

i watched your video and it could be posible it is twirling or stargazing but might also be brought on by stress of going through the moult, if it started around the same time thn it might be no coincidence. there are some pretty good people on here who have many years of experience so your at the best place you can be for help.

i personally think he is stressed with his first molt and its brought it on but i could be wrong. i really hope he pulls through. oh i forgot to mention... if he is falling of perches a lot then i'd put something soft all over the floor so cusion any future falls.

all the best

[birdclaws]

Thanks for your input Tiffany. I did plan on contacting you, but I've already bothered you enough this week! It's so surprising to see how fast he went down hill. He had no symptoms of this when I stopped by the other day, or else I would mentioned it and have asked for your advice. I also went to a bird supply store today to see if they have seen this condition, and like you said, they have seen it before and have never seen it get better.

In the event this is some kind of fungus or bacteria infection should I separate him from my bird room? I'm in paranoid mode now and plan on doing a thorough clean up on all my cages.

This anti-fungus aquarium stuff you've heard of / have...what is it? George here in Baltimore also recommended another aquarium med Sulfa Forte which contains some Trimethoprim and Sulfa.

[nixity]

In the event this is some kind of fungus or bacteria infection should I separate him from my bird room? I'm in paranoid mode now and plan on doing a thorough clean up on all my cages.

Well the problem is he's molting, which predisposes him to environment pathogens because of the stress, or if he has a pre-existing condition can amplify or bring it out due to a lowered immune system because of stress.

I noticed in the video your Pearl Head Amandines were housed together with his male.. I thought you had just gotten those birds recently which makes me wonder if they were quarantined or not?

I'm not saying these new birds are the cause of this - it does look like the beginning of twirling to me, and this isn't really something that is contagious. My drive home point is simply you should really always quarantine new introductions "just in case."

This anti-fungus aquarium stuff you've heard of / have...what is it? George here in Baltimore also recommended another aquarium med Sulfa Forte which contains some Trimethoprim and Sulfa.

You have to be super super careful using the aquarium medications because the dosage is not applicable to the birds, which means you have to know precisely how much to give the size bird your giving.

I can't remember the name of what I have - I'll look tonight and get back to you. What I will say is that in the few anecdotal stories I've heard of birds recovering from twirling due to treatment, I wonder if the twirling was just a red herring to some other issue which is why the treatment worked, but it didn't necessarily cure the twirling, perhaps just put it into a state of remission.
I'm just hypothesizing but only because it seems that in so many more other cases the birds just simply don't survive long once they start. It just slowly gets worse and worse...

[birdclaws]

Yeah, the aquarium fungal stuff sounds a little sketchy, but I would be willing to try if the medistatin / tri sulf does nothing. I guess I just have to accept he's going to be this way now and hopefully won't get any worse.

For the pearls, the plan was to treat them independently for ronivet /scatt and then put the entire cage on a 6 week baycox tratment, as none of the birds have been treated for it. I guess I hadn't thought of something else going wrong and am on a different level of paranoia now...

[birdclaws]

Things have gotten worse. He's only capable of perching on the very lowest perch now. He has a lot less control of his twirling spasms. He is having no luck eating from his seed dish. I've swapped the water dish with a small treat dish that can hang directly level to his perch.

I will try the medicine when it arrives, but I don't think I can watch him like this. I'd like to try and imagine he is not in pain, but even so, this is no life for a bird.

I'm so reluctant to get any more birds now. I can't believe this has happened.

[nixity]

Do you have any idea how old he is? How long have you had him?

[birdclaws]

I bought him as a juvenile at the baltimore bird mart last spring. I bought him and another male gouldian from the same breeder. This was his 2nd molt and showed no signs of illness until his head started tilting a week in to his molt.

I'll have to ask the breeder at the next mart if they've ever seen this in their birds before. If it is genetic, I would hate to see them continuing to breed these birds.