Beak Color in Goulidan Males

[L in Ontario]

How on earth do you keep all this stuff straight, Tiff?

I suppose a silver Gouldian can never be YTB... correct?

Thank you!

[nixity]

How on earth do you keep all this stuff straight, Tiff?

I suppose a silver Gouldian can never be YTB... correct?

Thank you!

I don't know! LOL I wonder the same thing about people who can write programming language or create SQL reports... I guess it's just a language that comes naturally to me

I mean - they CAN be.. genetically.. you just don't see the color manifested in their beak like you do with the normals and yellows.. because genetic blues (Blue, Pastel, Silver) can't fully metabolize the pigment colors responsible for red, orange and yellow. That's why their beaks are ivory colored only instead.

[bugaboo5]

Two split to OH parents would produce (statistically) 25% OH, 50% split for OH and 25% that do not carry it all.
The 75% that do not encompass the 25% visual OH you won't be able to distinguish. Meaning - you can't determine the splits from the offspring that don't carry it at all.

BH YTB is just a genetically orange headed bird that only has black sex linked head color allele(s). The orange color needs the same pathways in tact as a red head in order to express it, and being genetically black that pathway is "broken" - so the color only comes through in the beak of the bird and not in the head feathers.

Thanks for that explanation! I don't think I will ever fully understand gouldian genetics!! Yikes!! Again, sorry for the yet again, confusing statement I made earlier. I do have a question, however, on the "Two split to OH parents would produce (statistically) 25% OH, 50% split for OH and 25% that do not carry it all. The 75% that do not encompass the 25% visual OH you won't be able to distinguish" statement. If 25% do not carry these splits at all, how do you determine splits? For example, how do people determine that their birds are split for all three head colors? Thanks!!!!

[L in Ontario]

Two split to OH parents would produce (statistically) 25% OH, 50% split for OH and 25% that do not carry it all.
The 75% that do not encompass the 25% visual OH you won't be able to distinguish. Meaning - you can't determine the splits from the offspring that don't carry it at all.

BH YTB is just a genetically orange headed bird that only has black sex linked head color allele(s). The orange color needs the same pathways in tact as a red head in order to express it, and being genetically black that pathway is "broken" - so the color only comes through in the beak of the bird and not in the head feathers.

Thanks for that explanation! I don't think I will ever fully understand gouldian genetics!! Yikes!! Again, sorry for the yet again, confusing statement I made earlier. I do have a question, however, on the "Two split to OH parents would produce (statistically) 25% OH, 50% split for OH and 25% that do not carry it all. The 75% that do not encompass the 25% visual OH you won't be able to distinguish" statement. If 25% do not carry these splits at all, how do you determine splits? For example, how do people determine that their birds are split for all three head colors? Thanks!!!!

By breeding them and seeing what the offspring look like.

[bugaboo5]

By breeding them and seeing what the offspring look like.

Oh, ok. So basically in this kind of scenario, you would have to simply trust the breeder and they could be lying? In regards to being split to two or three head colors? And the only way to verify this is to breed....right. Thanks.

[L in Ontario]

By breeding them and seeing what the offspring look like.

Oh, ok. So basically in this kind of scenario, you would have to simply trust the breeder and they could be lying? In regards to being split to two or three head colors? And the only way to verify this is to breed....right. Thanks.

That's right... IMHO. If you can find a breeder that keeps records or a database of their birds breeding program. I have a database that goes back to the first chick that hatched for me in 2007 and all the chicks that have hatched since then, including closed band years and numbers, colours and splits of the chicks, their siblings and parents, grandparents, great grandparents... It's a lot of keep track of, but it's worth it.

If a breeder doesn't keep meticulous records, then you have to take their word for it.

[nixity]

Easily... if I have a BH YTB male, and let's say I pair him to a RH hen that isn't (or is, doesn't really matter) split for OH, all of the male babies would be RH/BH/OH - all of the hen offspring would be BH/OH.

If you take an OH Male, and pair it to a BH hen that isn't (or is, again, it doesn't matter) split for OH, you will also again get RH/BH/OH males and in this case RH/OH hens.


Anytime you take a bird that is pure recessive for a particular trait (OH, Blue) and pair it to a bird that isn't - you will produce at least all splits for that trait.

So a blue paired to a normal produces at least all normal/blue offspring.
But yes, anytime two splits are paired together the only way to know for certain that a baby is split they would need to be test bred.

[finchandlovebird]

Ranch Nanny: I get "lost at the bakery" also. But thanks to Nixity & Debbie....they are so patient in explaining it to us over & over & over again.

My male is BH.WB.BB & has a pure white beak. What is the explanation for that?

[nixity]

My male is BH.WB.BB & has a pure white beak. What is the explanation for that?

The blue mutation is the result of a broken metabolic pathway which is ordinarily responsible for the production of the red, orange and yellow pigments (carotenoids).
In blues, since this pathway is broken, they've lost much of the ability to deposit these pigments which is why the bird appears blue.

The pathway doesn't appear to be totally affected though which is why the head still retains some degree of color, though both orange and red are manifested as more of a salmon or beige color depending upon the breast color. (As you can see in the avatar picture of my Neeko, who was a RH, PB SF Pastel Blue)

This is why the yellow belly of a normal gouldian is off-white/white in a blue. For the same reason, since they can't produce these colors the color of the beak becomes an ivory color in all genetic blues (Blue, Pastel, Silver) because they cannot produce the red or orange colors of a normal or yellow for the beak to be red or orange tipped.
With the exception of Silvers, the beak will still darken on Blue hens.

But since Silvers lack the ability to express melanins as well as carotenes their beak is always an ivory color regardless of breeding condition in females.

[ranchnanny]