Charcoal ~ shelf life?

[cindy]

Tiffany, a while ago someone told me there was charcoal in Herb Salad...I never questioned it, honestly never looked into it. I just took their word for it, clearly they were misinformed and misinformed me. Sorry for the confusion.

I have bought both from you in the past. The other thing I was going to look into getting is kelp but that is in the HSalad. Are you going to be carrying all the same products you did before, are you adding any new ones?

[nixity]

Ah okay.. yeah, there is no charcoal in the Herb Salad And I think the Herb Salad generally comes packaged with an expiration date but if you refrigerate it or keep it in a cool/dry place it will last longer.

The only products I stopped carrying are Orlux because they are too difficult to get and keep because of the import hassles lately.

I might start carrying other product lines, not sure - if I did it would probably be vetafarm. I don't do a whole lot of website sales so I'm not really sure what the public demands or what products people would like to see offered that they can't already get elsewhere.

[kathmcm]

In regards to the question of why it's offered to the birds - yes, there is the benefit of removing toxins if that's the question, but it also sweetens the gut and aids in digestion in SMALL quantities. I never recommend it to be any more than 5% of any soluble grit mixture (eggshell, oyster shell, mineral grit, etc.) and I never offer it free choice on it's own because I have found that some (actually, many) will gorge on it if offered in this manner.

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~Tiffany

Thanks, this is the first reply that has really made sense to me.

I did not have confidence that finches should be given charcoal ad libitum because (1) that's what those who have had lots of finches for a long time are in the habit of doing, and (2) because the finches will eat it. If they always knew what they need to eat they wouldn't get into trouble with poisonous plants. It is difficult to know the effect of what we do or don't do on our birds health, because we are mostly just observing their response to many factors simultaneously. I can see giving charcoal if a bird has ingested a toxin. I can also see charcoal benefitting the digestion if there is some gas or bacterial toxins in the gut, so having a small amount mixed in the grit (not the food) makes sense. But the more charcoal in the bird's gut, the more it is going to absorb nutrients that we are going to some trouble to get into the bird. Charcoal is just a sponge. If a bird over-indulges in charcoal, they may become malnourished and weakened, and become susceptible to other illnesses. Because we do a lot for our birds with only the best of intentions, we are less likely to consider something we have done as a contributing factor, and just treat the illness.

My personal philosophy is to give my birds a balanced diet, clean spacious cage, and lots of sunlight, but to keep medications/supplements/treatments of all kinds to an absolute minimum (only when needed for specific reasons), and to not give them anything that I don't understand. I asked the question about why charcoal in order to understand why it would be made available to birds at all times. It makes sense to me that giving a small amount mixed in with the grit is potentially beneficial, especially if the birds have a tendency to GI disturbances. However, mine are doing fine (so active and chirpy they can make your head spin watching them) so I won't be giving them charcoal for now.

[kenny66]

mine have charcoal available all the time. They use it in the nest as part of the nest sweetening process. My gouldians, painteds,owls,RFPF, RCCB and OBWB all use it, some of them profusely. I have never seen the birds gorge on it but they all certainly eat various amounts of it. There is no doubt that the australian finches would have copious amounts of charcoal available to them in the australian bush naturally becase of our bushfire regime. I presume that the african species would b the same. I am not sure why there would be any objection to providing the birds with a naturally occuring product. For me personally I prefer to offer natural products in preference to some of the artificial additives that may be recommended for finches

[cindy]

Kenny, do you add it to he nest for them? By nest sweetener, does it neutralize the acid from the urine/droppings of the chickc?

I want to ad it to a calcium, mineral mix (powdered) and leave it in small egg cups or finger cups for them. I know if they are comsuming it, their dropping turn black.

[kenny66]

Kenny, do you add it to he nest for them? By nest sweetener, does it neutralize the acid from the urine/droppings of the chickc?

I want to ad it to a calcium, mineral mix (powdered) and leave it in small egg cups or finger cups for them. I know if they are comsuming it, their dropping turn black.

No I just provide it in a small bowl(crushed but not all powder) they take small chunks of it to the nest as a cleaning agent. I find that the painted's, for example, use it in successive layers whilst they are building the nest. The Gouldians and the Red Faced Parrot Finches put it at the bottom of the nest. It seems to be a part of normal nest hygiene and they continually use it at various stages of breeding. Why do you need to check their droppings to see if they are eating it? mine don't have black droppings with it. They balance their intake of it with everything else they eat and just produce normal droppings.

[Bluebonnet]

I know if they are comsuming it, their dropping turn black.

Interesting discussion. I'm providing my birds with the Forti-Diet Hi-Cal Grit that has charocal listed in the ingredients. Out of curiosity, I wonder how much charcoal a finch would have to consume for their droppings to turn black? And would the black droppings "mask" possible signs of an illness that you would otherwise be alerted to by the dropping color?

[Sally]

Each cage in my bird room has a mineral cup, which is filled with a mixture of Abba mineral grit, ground oystershell, charcoal, and Morning Bird's trace mineral powder. I top it off with eggshells and Hagen's clay-cal. Once the mixture starts getting low, or gets pooped on, I dump out the cup and start fresh again. My birds are at their mineral cup off and on all day long. I've never noticed black poop from them eating charcoal; in fact, the poop in all cages looks normal. I would guess the ingredient that gets eaten the most is the eggshells.

[cindy]

When I first started I gave it alone in a cup.. ..noticed the dropping turned black....I assumed they ate it in a quanity more than they should. I wrote on the forum about it and others chimed in saying it is normal.....this time to avoid the gorging and black droppings I am mixing it in a 5 lb bag of powdered oystershell and shaved cuttlebone/mineral block.

Interesting about the painteds using it in the best.

When I first tried the charcoal it was early on in my finching.....about 2 yrs ago I estimate. The second time I mixed and added dried kelp, the droppings were fine with the mix. I have not used it in over a year....the reason for the post!

[Chichireeo]

I've been doing the same as Sally.
I am wondering what is the difference between bird charcoal and naturally occurring charcoal. I know that activated charcoal has a lot more adsorption than regular charcoal. But does it occur naturally? How does it become activated anyway?

[cindy]

I'd like to ask....the clay-cal, who do you order it from? The only place I have seen the powdered oystershell in a quanity is Bird Supply of NH. Any other sources?

[Chichireeo]

I'd like to ask....the clay-cal, who do you order it from? The only place I have seen the powdered oystershell in a quanity is Bird Supply of NH. Any other sources?

I bought my clay cal from amazon. The powdered oyster shell I also cannot find in small quantities. Didn't want to buy the 5 lb so I buy elsewhere and grind it fine.

[nixity]

The problem I think is that birds who have never been offered something like this do tend to gorge on it. I'm not sure why - the same thing can happen with egg shell or soluble grit in general.

Birds that have never had it available daily when offered it for some reason tend to gorge, and I have seen and heard of crop impactions as a result of people offering egg shell free choice to birds that never had it available before.

I can see where perhaps if you gradually introduce it to the point of it being offered free choice the birds would consume it as needed but I have also had birds that regardless will consume it in excess, and as an earlier post pointed out, charcoal doesn't discriminate in terms of what it filters out of the system good and bad.

So in excess quantities it is harmful, not helpful.

[cindy]

Tiffany, if I use the charcoal in combination with clay-cal, shaved cuttlebone and mineral block and possibly kelp what pecentage of charcoal do you recommend...can it be equal amounts of each ingredient. I would mix this into 2 and a half pounds of the 5 lb bag of powdered oystershell.

[nixity]

I never make it more than 5% of a mixture, as a rule of thumb