Frizzle/frilled Gouldian??

[buteo4]

Hello!
My finch collection is expanding and I have finally gotten Gouldians! I am now up to six beautiful young birds (details later).
I am posting today about a message I received yesterday from a woman I have bought canaries from in the past. She is offering to give me a young "special needs" Gouldian. She is wanting him to go to a good home where he will be well loved and cared for (since she won't be using him for breeding) and I have a soft spot for misfits!
This dilute male came through his first moult with deformed wing feathers. They are all curled outward (like a frizzle chicken). His parents and siblings are normal. I've combed the intenet and could not find another like him. I am picking him up Sat and will post pictures as soon as I can.
In the meantime, any thoughts?

[kathmcm]

Congratulations on your new bird!

I wonder if it is anything like the feather abnormality in Eumo zebra finches? Were you told if he can fly?

[cindy]

Something to consider prior to bring this special needs bird home is the possibility that this was caused by what they call french moult (Polyomavirus). When I hear of a bird with twisted feathers that are not normal I am cautious due to the fact that it can be caused by a virus. The primary feathers referred to in some of the articles are the wing feathers.


http://macawlanding.org/polyoma.html

http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/commun ... health.php
quote
" Lyn Steiger from New York asks: I have a few Gouldians w/overgrown or crossed beaks. One seemed always fluffed up & inactive so treated her with Colloidal Silver and she is now bouncy & active. Does this suggest I have polyomavirus in my aviary? I have two young hens from last year's hatching that are now appearing puffed up, sleeping a lot and very slow to complete their first moult - could they have the polyomavirus as well? Will a treatment of Colloidal Silver in their water or fed directly help these others? What do you suggest I do to help the remaining birds? Thank you
Hello Lyn, The condition that you describe with the overgrown and crossed beaks does sound like Polyomavirus. Once contracted, it is a life-long disease that can be spread to baby birds when the virus is being shed by carrier birds. It is best to support health with my Health Programmes and to prevent other infections that are opportunistic in weakened birds.

Other signs of exposure to Polyomavirus are feathering abnormalities, which could be what you are seeing in your 2 young hens. Birds carrying the Polyomavirus will go through periods of health and weakness throughout their lives, which is why it is important to limit their exposure to disease throughout their lives. All the Best, Rob"

http://www.avianweb.com/polyoma.html

I don't mean to upset you, but if I was offered a bird free with "special needs" like the ones you described I would be a bit cautious in regards to the rest of my birds.

[buteo4]

Hello Again...I assumed it was a random mutation and it never occured to me it could be something as sinister as a virus.

Here are a couple pictures she sent of him. Apparently the feathers came in this way during his first full adult moult. He is just under a year old.

She said he seems completely healthy in every other way (good appetite, energy level, etc).

[cindy]

If you read the articles the birds appear fine but can shed the virus...Personally, I would not bring him into your flock...that is not a mutation. I have also seen this referred to as "twisted feather disease"

Another article...
http://www.exoticpetvet.com/breeds/polyomavirus.htm

transmitted via contaminated feather dust, feces, urine, urates, respiratory secretions, crop secretions, intranasal route of infection, ingestion, parent to offspring

[AngieCort68]

Cindy great information and advise.

[cindy]

If this is what it appears to be, it can be spread as stated above, caution should be given in cleaning and handling the bird even walking though an aviary that is suspected of it. Precautions like showering and changing clothes, leaving the shoes outside before entering your own aviary.

The bird should never be bred. The best way to verify the virus is present is to have testing done by an avian vet.

[buteo4]

Sigh...

I will contact her. She may not even know that his could possibly in her flock. I do have a male Gouldian from her which my fiance brought me on Christmas eve. He is with in with a lone female I had gotten two months earlier on cl. I also have several canaries from her, though they all came from a separate bird room (I'd never even seen her Gouldians before). Her Canary room, etc is immaculately kept from what I have seen. Even if I were to take him it would be impossible to keep him in a separate room as I keep all the birds in a securely locked room to keep the cats out!

NOt a lot of info on polyoma virus in finches (as it is more common in budgies). From what I read Twisted feather disease is caused by a different virus and is found in psittacines (hookbills). Regardless I need to proceed with caution.

[cindy]

The articles I posted listed finches...It is seen in canaries. I would be reluctant to take him...

if you google passerines Polyomavirus more information can be found, passerines includes finches

http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/Articles/ ... moult.html

http://www.aspenwing.com/bird-care/the- ... -awareness

[cindy]

page 111
http://books.google.com/books?id=yfe7M- ... us&f=false

the book in general is a good guide for birds....finches are discussed.

If ou were to take the bird, I would take it to a vet as soon as you pick it up to rule the virus out. This and the above postings are just my opinion.

[Sharona]

It's such a sad predicament. It would be great if she could adopt him out to someone that had no other birds to be at risk but it would also be sad for him to be all alone. I just don't think I could take the risk of bringing something in to my other babies. It's a tough situation and decision.

[poohbear1976]

If you read the articles the birds appear fine but can shed the virus...Personally, I would not bring him into your flock...that is not a mutation. I have also seen this referred to as "twisted feather disease"

Another article...
http://www.exoticpetvet.com/breeds/polyomavirus.htm

transmitted via contaminated feather dust, feces, urine, urates, respiratory secretions, crop secretions, intranasal route of infection, ingestion, parent to offspring

So not to get off topic but I was discussing a catalina macaw with a lady and she says the hen has a couple light feathers that grow out twisted and she can't fly and the breeder told her it was from getting her wings caught in the stand as a younger chick.. Should I wonder then on this one as you can see I have a few birds to consider on this?

[buteo4]

The links provided have been very helpful. I would think most bird owners would find it quite scarey! I would be concerned buying a large bird, but it seems it would be easier and more practical to have a larger hookbill tested and/or vaccinated.
What concerns me here is that I already have birds from this lady! The canaries all seem to be fine (though carriers can be asymptomatic). But the 2 yr old male Gould does have a slightly crossed beak which requires occasional trimming, (could be a symptom, but could also likely be genetic!). She very rarely sells her Gouldians, it took nearly a year to get this one.
Earlier this week my fiance and I bought four gorgeous young birds (an OH, WB male, an OH dilute male, and 2 BH, WB hens--hope I got the terminology right) after being on a waiting list with another breeder (they are VERY hard to find here in NE WI!) Obviously I have them in their own large cage but they are in the same room as the other birds, ecxept the societies which are large enclosed cat-proof flight downstairs, and my obnoxious conure whom the cats are afraid of. I am so thankful for the information I got here, but I am such a worried bird mommy anyway!
Sent her an e-mail...waiting to hear back.

[cindy]

Bear in mind that unless the bird is tested to confirm the virus what I am telling you is not a 100%, but caution is still advised. I am going based on what I see and have seen. When I first saw the title of your post and read what you wrote I felt I had to say something since you have birds already. If this is Polyomavirus and the bird carries it, it can be passed easily as discussed.

poohbear1976 ~ With a larger bird it is advisable to make a vet appointment and take the bird right to the vet prior to bringing it home. There are 2 major diseases that you need to be concerned with and you want to be sure your bird is is good health. The virus we are discussing Polyomavirus and PBFD. A good avian vet will draw blood, do fecal smears, check the bird over. Sometimes it is difficult to see what the hides, it is also possible that the wing suffered an injury, but to be sure a vet needs to look at the bird.
The larger birds if a carrier is fine in a home with out other parrots/hookbills. Also if you are considering the bird, take a look at the feathers in the tail and wings...larer parrots like Grays, Macaws can show what the call stress bars in their feathers, little black lines that show horizantly across the feathers...it can be due to illness, environment, diet. It can be corrected if environment or diet. Again an avain vet is required to check the bird over. If you do buy the bird ask if the vet finds anything is their a return policy or will she cover the cost to get the bird well. If she says a vet checked the bird already get the name of the vet and ask her for the records. I would still go to my own avian vet to be positive you are buying a healthy companion bird.

[poohbear1976]

Bear in mind that unless the bird is tested to confirm the virus what I am telling you is not a 100%, but caution is still advised. I am going based on what I see and have seen. When I first saw the title of your post and read what you wrote I felt I had to say something since you have birds already. If this is Polyomavirus and the bird carries it, it can be passed easily as discussed.

poohbear1976 ~ With a larger bird it is advisable to make a vet appointment and take the bird right to the vet prior to bringing it home. There are 2 major diseases that you need to be concerned with and you want to be sure your bird is is good health. The virus we are discussing Polyomavirus and PBFD. A good avian vet will draw blood, do fecal smears, check the bird over. Sometimes it is difficult to see what the hides, it is also possible that the wing suffered an injury, but to be sure a vet needs to look at the bird.
The larger birds if a carrier is fine in a home with out other parrots/hookbills. Also if you are considering the bird, take a look at the feathers in the tail and wings...larer parrots like Grays, Macaws can show what the call stress bars in their feathers, little black lines that show horizantly across the feathers...it can be due to illness, environment, diet. It can be corrected if environment or diet. Again an avain vet is required to check the bird over. If you do buy the bird ask if the vet finds anything is their a return policy or will she cover the cost to get the bird well. If she says a vet checked the bird already get the name of the vet and ask her for the records. I would still go to my own avian vet to be positive you are buying a healthy companion bird.

Yes I'm aware of stress bars and the causes of them.. And would take her to my local vet but he just does a quick look and would have to take her over to U of I to see our closest avian specialist first then.. I might just pass and go back with the idea of getting me a new baby that has been tested for all that and has a health cert with them..