supplements on a daily basis

[birdclaws]

I have crushed eggshells, grit/charcoal, and herb salad in separate dishes for them to pick at free choice. Those are the only everyday available supplements.

I'm not breeding now, but rotate between eggfood, sprouts and vegetables. I try to give them something fresh each day. The eggfood is where I would normally add any additional non-daily supplements. Some trace minerals, spirulina or one of the other morning bird products. Sometimes, I just do eggs only, with a bit of hand-feeding powder to dry it out. I try to make something a little different each time to provide a subtle variety to their seed diet.

[Rour]

However, there is also the opinion that finches ought to be given the same healthy diet all year round. Of course, everything being in moderation so birds won't get fat and lazy. I tend to agree with the second opinion, because, at the end of the day, these finches are not living in the wild. Especially in the case where the finches are kept indoors (such as in Canada for the most part), they are getting exposed to basically the same variables. Apart from changing the hours of light they get, they are not getting the four seasons replicated within the room.

And that is the problem with a flat diet, in that most finches need triggers that they often don't receive in captivity which tell their bodies when to molt, when to breed, and when to rest. The triggers vary by species to some degree, but basically they are dietary variation, length of daylight hours, and temperature. In the case of Gouldians the primary trigger is dietary variation. A flat diet is probably the single biggest cause of infertility and pitching of nestlings as the male and female often don’t reach breeding condition synchronously without dietary triggers.

Here is a link to the feeding schedule and foods I have used with my Gouldians since being trained by Mike Fidler at the Save the Gouldian Fund in 2008:
http://www.fabulousfinch.com/feeding-la ... inches.htm

And here is a link to an article on “why” I use the food schedule above:
http://www.fabulousfinch.com/breeding-g ... inches.htm

While this information is specific to Gouldians it is applicable to many finch species (with consideration to unique needs such as more or less insects in the diet, etc).

Bill Van Patten
http://www.FabulousFinch.com

About the Save the Gouldian Fund
A state of the art research program based in Australia dedicated to the conservation and restoration of the endangered wild Gouldian finch. The study which started in 2005 includes both wild and captive Gouldians with a current annual research budget of 1M and a staff of 7 full time researchers. While the focus is on wild Gouldians, they also maintain a captive population of 2000 Gouldian finches for research that is more easily conducted in a captive environment. This research is of fantastic benefit to aviculturists as well as the primary scientific focus of understanding and helping an endangered species. The Save the Gouldian Fund is the largest sustained research program in the world on any finch species and is a very worthwhile organization to become involved with where your membership can make a real difference. You can learn more about the Save the Gouldian Fund at: http://www.SaveTheGouldian.org

Thanks for the links. I've read these articles, and they do have some really interesting research. In does make sense, that finches need certain foods to stimulate and trigger certain hormones and conditions. On the other side of the coin, some articles will say no to giving finches only seed for any period of time, as their bodies have to be strong and well-maintained at all times. If we are going to emulate nature, perhaps we are better off leaving the birds in their natural habitat Perhaps increasing certain foods at times and ensuring they have time to rest, recover, and exercise would be healthier? I don't know for sure. Im a first time gouldian breeder (my hen is sitting on 7 eggs right now), and I try my best to do what I can with the resources and space available.

Thanks for the information

[dan78]

Rour that's the best thing you can do is to do the best with what you have, I believe some people can go to the extreme and it works for them. What we have to do as avicultureists is the best for the birds with what we have available. Sometimes you may find what you are doing/feeding will work with some birds and not others so experimenting is also a fun part. I personally have a large collection of mixed birds- canaries, hundreds of finches and some smaller parrots and every bird has individual needs and requirements throughout he year but this would take a long time to explain and has taken many years of trial and error with copious amount of info gathered through people, books and magazines and only of late internet. Sometimes simple and easy can reap similar results as some more stricter scheduling. With people having different life styles and place where we live , time -working/retired , money are all issues in which we have to take into consideration with what birds we house. Kenny might be like me and need alot of live food which can cost me about $120au a month alone not including eggs fruits and veg, seed and so on. Sorry I do get abit rambling at times

[cindy]

Question....can this be given to finches? Diamoceous earth.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/red-lake-e ... b--1019864

[dan78]

Short answer yes, have heard alot of people using it, great stuff so they have said. I don't know how good the outcomes are or if there is any issues that come with it.

[cindy]

I went into a feed store to pick up some oyster shell...burnt out a coffee grinder while powdering it....anyway they had the d/earth there. I was not sure if it was the same product others have used on there finches. If so I wonder it it could be blended in with the powdered oystershell, mineral block?

[kenny66]

I went into a feed store to pick up some oyster shell...burnt out a coffee grinder while powdering it....anyway they had the d/earth there. I was not sure if it was the same product others have used on there finches. If so I wonder it it could be blended in with the powdered oystershell, mineral block?

I use the D/earth. the best method is to get a treat seed mix which they don't have all the time (breeding seed mix, greens and grains) which the finches love. Add 1 teaspoon dusting the seed.Mix well. This way they will consume it. It is very good on a long term basis with some experiencing it as an effective a worming and coccidiosis treatment. I think you would need to use it for 6 months or more to see any effect.

[kenny66]

Well, this is what I use every day in the big aviary of about 100 birds. Its breeding season now so I have a couple more things than I would have out of season. I have reduced the amounts for smaller set ups

1 small dish crushed charcoal (available all the time).
I small dish of crushed cuttlebone (available all the time).
1 small dish of crushed grit with iodine plus a crushed mineral/pick block used by pigeons.(available all the time).
1 small dish of crushed oyster shell (available all the time).
1 small dish of insectivore mix (for the highly insectivorous fiches-in breeding season only and only as a supplement)
1 small dish PVM pink mineral supplement ( from pigeon wholesalers and available all the time)
1 small dish of Biocal grit and mineral supplement (available from pigeon supply wholesalers and available all the time)
Romain lettuce
Lebanese cucumber
Meal worms in big quantities (in breeding season only)
Maggots in big quantities (breeding season only)
Fresh Water (no additives except for 3ml/ltr of Apple Cider Vinegar)
Good seed
Greens Grains and Grit-a mixture of seeding grass seeds and meadow grass seeds, or eqivalent.
Fresh boiled egg mash with shells.
Baycox (3ml/ltr for 3 days) or coccievet (3ml/ltr for 7 days) every 3 months
Moxidectin at the rate of 5ml/ltr every 3 months
Ronidizole every 4 months for canker.
Nilstain for thrush if diagnosed 1/2 tablet per ltr
I dont use any water soluble supplements at all and dont treat the birds with antibiotics. Hopefully this may give some ideas and you can select out of this list things that you might want to try.

[Bird man]

For the health of my birds i clean them out every week with fresh sawdust, I give my birds calciform in their water 2 times a week, avigold multi-vitamin 3 times a week and regular water the last 2 days, Cuttlefish bone grit, Egg food mix i am giving is boiled eggs, digestive bic, soakseed, pinkies, grated broccoli, grated carrot, peas, corn,and a handful of dandy seeds all mixed together. Getting it 3 times a week soakseed & soak niger seed every other day will bump up egg food mix to 5 days thats because its the breeding season soon over hear in Ireland and every day when i have chicks change water every day and egg food twice a day maybe 3 times depends on weather.Winter time baths 2 times a week summer time every day,keeps your birds healthy and nice feathers.

[Bluebonnet]

In starting this thread I was a little more focused on providing some very basic information to those new people into finches who just want to understand what they need to do for their finches every day. There are many experts on the various finch species and their documentation and research is freely available on the internet. Truth is though, it is not practical for a lot of finch owners to be in a position to follow regimes of austerity versus breeding season diets and the like. Cost and availability of products may be an issue for some people. Most finch owners are looking to provide optimum conditions within their ability to do so. Therefore a simple approach to finch keeping might be of interest. That's all!!
I am sure everyone will greatly appreciate your advice on keeping gouldians.

All excellent points, Kenny. Due to my lifestyle and budget, I'm one of those wanting a simple approach. Thank you for your efforts.

[kenny66]

Well, this is what I use every day in the big aviary of about 100 birds. Its breeding season now so I have a couple more things than I would have out of season. I have reduced the amounts for smaller set ups

1 small dish crushed charcoal (available all the time).
I small dish of crushed cuttlebone (available all the time).
1 small dish of crushed grit with iodine plus a crushed mineral/pick block used by pigeons.(available all the time).
1 small dish of crushed oyster shell (available all the time).
1 small dish of insectivore mix (for the highly insectivorous fiches-in breeding season only and only as a supplement)
1 small dish PVM pink mineral supplement ( from pigeon wholesalers and available all the time)
1 small dish of Biocal grit and mineral supplement (available from pigeon supply wholesalers and available all the time)
Romain lettuce
Lebanese cucumber
Meal worms in big quantities (in breeding season only)
Maggots in big quantities (breeding season only)
Fresh Water (no additives except for 3ml/ltr of Apple Cider Vinegar)
Good seed
Greens Grains and Grit-a mixture of seeding grass seeds and meadow grass seeds, or eqivalent.
Fresh boiled egg mash with shells.
Baycox (3ml/ltr for 3 days) or coccievet (3ml/ltr for 7 days) every 3 months
Moxidectin at the rate of 5ml/ltr every 3 months
Ronidizole every 4 months for canker.
Nilstain for thrush if diagnosed 1/2 tablet per ltr
I dont use any water soluble supplements at all and dont treat the birds with antibiotics. Hopefully this may give some ideas and you can select out of this list things that you might want to try.

Oh, nearly forgot. here are my suggestions of what is essential in my view everyday, for people who have a busy lifetyle and may not be able to get all the products mentioned. This will apply to those with breeding/holding cages and small aviaries.

Basic Maintenance:
1. Fresh water with Apple cider vinegar in it(3ml-5ml/ltr)-
2. grit mix-all the time
3. crushed charcoal-all the time (mix with the grit)
4. crushed cuttlebone-all the time
5. some sort of mineral mix (powdered or granuals)
6. Good quality seed-all the time
7. Greens/veggies of some sort-daily if possible but at least 3 times per week
8. boiled egg with shells mash (or commercial soft food)
if you are really pressed for time you can drop the egg mix.
Clean cages weekly (including perches) with white vinegar and water at the rate of 1 cup to 1ltr water.Put bubble wrap under the cage flooring material to provide a "soft landing" if you have chicks in the nest. Clean wicker nests with either white vinegar and water or bleach and water at the same rate-leave at least 1 hr to dry. Sandpaper the perches to provide a rough surface for landing purposes.

[Martie]

Kenny, is this the Pick Block you are referring to?

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catal ... -5037.html

I wasn't able to find PVM Pink Mineral Powder here in the U.S., though. Seems an Australian product?

[kenny66]

Kenny, is this the Pick Block you are referring to?

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catal ... -5037.html

I wasn't able to find PVM Pink Mineral Powder here in the U.S., though. Seems an Australian product?

That's it- I saw on this site somewhere that someone had got the pink powder in the US, I will see if I can find it and let you know

[kenny66]

I bought a free supply mineral/vitamin mix from a breeder an hour away. He offers it to his birds as an unlimited supply, and the birds just love it. I bought a small container to try out, and my goulds and zebras go nuts for it. Its a pink powder, and is supposed to give them everything they need. Its called "Vitamineral".

Anyone heard of this or use it?

We have a pink powder called PVM for pigeons which I think is the same

[kenny66]

Kenny, is this the Pick Block you are referring to?

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catal ... -5037.html

I wasn't able to find PVM Pink Mineral Powder here in the U.S., though. Seems an Australian product?

That's it- I saw on this site somewhere that someone had got the pink powder in the US, I will see if I can find it and let you know

waxbill lover wrote about it in the above post-vitamineral is the name in Canada, not sure about US. If you google Australian Pigeon Company-products- you will see PVM powder, Biocal and the pick blocks described there