Listerine and/or Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV)?

[DanteD716]

So this experiment is valid? Do you know of any good links with a scientists opinion?

[CandoAviary]

So this experiment is valid? Do you know of any good links with a scientists opinion?

Listerine has done valid trials with many scientist, if not they could not make the claims they do on the bacteria that it kills.
Most any antiseptic that makes it to market has pages and pages of data. As Dean pointed out sometimes there are so many pages that it would overload posting on this forum. You can google this yourself and find this information... or better yet conduct your own experiment. If you don't have a microscope maybe you could approach your teacher for a science project for your school work. I'm sure they would let you use the schiools microscope

[DanteD716]

No, my brother had one but I am almost sure he broke it. So I will test it at this dilution to see what it does. I am my bio/lab teacher's favorite student so I am sure I can use one of the benches during study hall

[CandoAviary]

No, my brother had one but I am almost sure he broke it. So I will test it at this dilution to see what it does. I am my bio/lab teacher's favorite student so I am sure I can use one of the benches during study hall

Please post what your findings are. I am like a little mad scientist myself and like discovering things in my bird poop

[DanteD716]

[Bluebonnet]

No, my brother had one but I am almost sure he broke it. So I will test it at this dilution to see what it does. I am my bio/lab teacher's favorite student so I am sure I can use one of the benches during study hall

Please post what your findings are. I am like a little mad scientist myself and like discovering things in my bird poop

Candace, have you been around birds so long you're turning into one? Or did you mean your bird's poop.

[DanteD716]

No, my brother had one but I am almost sure he broke it. So I will test it at this dilution to see what it does. I am my bio/lab teacher's favorite student so I am sure I can use one of the benches during study hall

Please post what your findings are. I am like a little mad scientist myself and like discovering things in my bird poop

Candace, have you been around birds so long you're turning into one? Or did you mean your bird's poop.

[kenny66]

A lot of this information may be too complex and over complicated for many participants to this forum. It would be great to get back to providing insights and information on finch keeping for the newer finch people, rather than engage in scientific debate . There appears to be no, or very few, comments posted from newer finch owners on this topic, which I think says everything!!! We don't want to scare them away. Obviously Tiffany and Cindy have sound scientific experience/knowledge/qualifications, at their fingertips and that should just be accepted as fact. I made a decision a long time ago that the only time I would personalise a post would be to compliment/support the person named and that is what I do. I read all of the very extensive comments on this topic again this morning. Once i had finished reading them I had to walk out into the aviaries to remind me what the hobby is all about. Keeping healthy happy birds!!!!!

[CandoAviary]

You know, it's this type of back handed statement that causes people to get cross because even though you may not intend it (and sometimes I have a hard time believing that is the case), because this can come across insinuating that I'm here promoting my website or my business (which I'm not, if someone asks me if I sell something I will answer but I have never tried to push my site or my products into anyone's lap) - it also appears to be a direct reply to me stating I have a degree in Biology.

If anyone has promoted your website, it has been me and seems that you enter this topic being upset about it. And no, you can believe what you want, but I speak pretty straight forward and not back handed.... this statement was posed to many on this thread touting their educational, medical, and family relations degrees and fields like that somehow overides the value of someone that does their own research or studies the research of others. It's not like we are talking about foreign materials that have not been researched in great depth. You just have to read each brands public findings.
As you say Tiffany and I agree, I do think that it is great to use whatever products you choose and to agree or disagree with what someone recommends. I just don't get these arguments over Deans first post on trying to help a poor canary with loose stools. It seems to me that some agree with his statements and some don't. It also seems that people keep wanting to challenge his way.... yet expects everyone to accept there way... well where is their proof in what they use? Probably in the studies/ experiences they conducted themselves or from the companies that conducted the research on the products they use. Then there are some who base there opinions it on more eastern medicine, with natural healing of herbs for instance. (Vinegar also) Some totally embrace the power of herbs... some think if it isn't manufactured by a scientist/pharmaceutical company then it won't work.. Yes, many keepers will find products maufactered for birds with a ready dosage on the bottle fits their birkeeping practices best, while there are others that rely on natural herbal... this is more of an acquired practice because there is no specified dose... sometimes it is a mixture of herbs/oil remedies. etc.
I just don't get all of the people challenging.... where is your proof that it doesn't work? Listerine kills germs... dettol kills germs
And as Tiffany pointed out
"Sparkle is designed to help prevent overgrowth of bacteria or algae and IMO it is not as effective after about 2-3 days." This is exactly the point. By adding a a cleanser shown to fight bacteria...no matter what the name brand... then you are keeping the water clean longer... therefore better for the bird. Simple. Though I only know how to prove it in to me in my own bird husbandry. My proof is in the health of my birds and the lack of sick and dying birds.
I will continue to follow new research by inspired people and also continue to use tried and true methods. Which is both a chemical and herbal, eastern and western combination of things.
What gets me is the first statement was about the alcohol content of 1 drop of listerine to 8 oz of water..... and how that was harmful and could kill your bird.... this first statement was way out there in my opinion and when suggested to use non alcohol...seems the debate was on.... charge I have learned something new through this post and that's why I am here... Dettol. Fascinating stuff for canaries bath water.

[CandoAviary]

Candace, have you been around birds so long you're turning into one? Or did you mean your bird's poop.

I have no bird poop... but my dog has seed poop

[CandoAviary]

Once i had finished reading them I had to walk out into the aviaries to remind me what the hobby is all about. Keeping healthy happy birds!!!!!

I couldn't agree more... whatever way people go about accomplishing that.
Unfortunately not everyone has a healthy bird. This whole thread seemed to come about by someone trying to answer an almost month long request for a sick canary with loose stool that was lethargic.

There are many members making comments, just not publically.

[CandoAviary]

So this experiment is valid? Do you know of any good links with a scientists opinion?

I have many but I am mostly a book reading type.
I love this book by Dr, Rob Marshall
http://www.birdhealth.com.au/bird/canar ... ealth.html

And here is a site that covers a bit that is in his book.
http://www.birdhealth.com.au/bird/canar ... ammes.html

[kenny66]

Once i had finished reading them I had to walk out into the aviaries to remind me what the hobby is all about. Keeping healthy happy birds!!!!!

I couldn't agree more... whatever way people go about accomplishing that.
Unfortunately not everyone has a healthy bird. This whole thread seemed to come about by someone trying to answer an almost month long request for a sick canary with loose stool that was lethargic.

There are many members making comments, just not publically.

If comments arenot made publically how are we supposed to know about them. ABTW we did not seem to deal with the original topic very effectively or effectively for the person that posted it.

[L in Ontario]

Once i had finished reading them I had to walk out into the aviaries to remind me what the hobby is all about. Keeping healthy happy birds!!!!!

I couldn't agree more... whatever way people go about accomplishing that.
Unfortunately not everyone has a healthy bird. This whole thread seemed to come about by someone trying to answer an almost month long request for a sick canary with loose stool that was lethargic.

There are many members making comments, just not publically.

If comments are not made publically how are we supposed to know about them. ABTW we did not seem to deal with the original topic very effectively or effectively for the person that posted it.

True Kenny on your second statement.

This part of the post was split off from the original thread as it no longer deals with the ill canary. People veered off course so much as to constitute a totally different / separate thread topic.

Just please remember (everyone) to BE RESPECTFUL to everyone else.

[DanteD716]

Candace (or who else has answers), how long does listirine stay in effective?? I am not for it, as I am skeptical, but I still like learning, and respect everybody's opinions. I agree, keep it respectful, these debates may get intense, but it is part of keeping bird, keep it cool ya'll!

@ Cadance, thanks for the links