Listerine and/or Apple Cider Vinegar (ACV)?

[kenny66]

Hi Liz
Is your last comment directed at me or general

[L in Ontario]

General, Kenny - just everyone in general. I have no issues with your posts.

I went back and edited my post to clarify. HTH

[kenny66]

Thanks for that-I do try to be polite!

[Sally]

A lot of this information may be too complex and over complicated for many participants to this forum. It would be great to get back to providing insights and information on finch keeping for the newer finch people, rather than engage in scientific debate . There appears to be no, or very few, comments posted from newer finch owners on this topic, which I think says everything!!! We don't want to scare them away. Obviously Tiffany and Cindy have sound scientific experience/knowledge/qualifications, at their fingertips and that should just be accepted as fact. I made a decision a long time ago that the only time I would personalise a post would be to compliment/support the person named and that is what I do. I read all of the very extensive comments on this topic again this morning. Once i had finished reading them I had to walk out into the aviaries to remind me what the hobby is all about. Keeping healthy happy birds!!!!!

I think most of the newbies are afraid to post anything here, not wanting to be drawn into the 'debate'. Either that, or it has simply become too repetitive. It reminds me of when I first joined another forum. It was a heated time, and the jabs and comments flew back and forth. As a newcomer, I sat back, read the comments, and almost left the group, as I didn't think it was a place I wanted to be. I definitely was intimidated by all the 'experienced' people who couldn't seem to agree on anything, and wondered what in the world I was doing there. This is a hobby for me, supposed to be fun, and I assume that is the reason most people on this forum have finches. I would venture to guess that most members just want to enjoy their pets and not feel like they are doing wrong by them. It doesn't have to be so complicated for many of us!

[kenny66]

yep, couldn't agree more. I am on this forum to learn and hopefully help some of those who want information about my experiences in keeping finches. I really don't want to defend what I do, just discuss it in a gentle and considered way and hopefully provide some insights for those interested.

[CandoAviary]

If comments arenot made publically how are we supposed to know about them. ABTW we did not seem to deal with the original topic very effectively or effectively for the person that posted it.

You wouldn't know unless you are getting contacted. You hit the nail on the head... scared away. The being scared away has little to do with this "information being too complex and over complicated" as you stated but they just don't want to get into the drama. They are looking to share and contribute their experiences but don't want the criticism aimed at them. I know some of these members through other places besides this forum some strictly through the forum. Many members ask me for sites or books I recommend because they are more into learning about finches than reading other peoples arguments.
And you are right about the bad handling of the post. I never even responded to Rour quest for help.... it was almost a month before someone did and of course as she stated the bird had progressed and was fine... just stress to adjusting to new home and diet. So she kind of helped herself
I went to post this and just saw Sally's post. Yes, most don't care how the products work they just want answers to what may help and to share whats going on with their birds... I love sharing pics of hatchlings personally..it's kind of like baby annoucements and stories of where my bird passion has led me....
But I am always open to learn about a new product, new ways, new studies, new mutations, so I enjoy the deeper researchers who take time to share that stuff too. If it weren't for the experts that went before me and shared their experience /studies via books, websites, classes, clubs etc... I wouldn't know half of what I do. But some just have a natural way and instinct with animals and it just kind of comes natural. I was born with this gift

[CandoAviary]

yep, couldn't agree more. I am on this forum to learn and hopefully help some of those who want information about my experiences in keeping finches. I really don't want to defend what I do, just discuss it in a gentle and considered way and hopefully provide some insights for those interested.

I don't think anyone wants to defend what they do... but some memebers get challenged while others don't. I don't think I have ever seen anyone question your bird keeping experience Kenny nor have I ever seen anything like this questioning a newcomer like Dean the canary man like this either and still is questioning his ways. Even when you say you have used the same products that he has used they don't even ask you why or challenge you to prove they work. Strange group of educated people... maybe it's just the debate format you guys learned in college

[DanteD716]

Guys, I have found an odd but strange method, like listerine, pinesole!!!! It kills germs, just I would add 1 tblsp for every 2 gallons. Now there is a great article on this, so I think I shall try it. Has anybody else heard of this?? Interesting!

I was cracking a joke! Hahaha! Get it? No?

[kenny66]

yep, couldn't agree more. I am on this forum to learn and hopefully help some of those who want information about my experiences in keeping finches. I really don't want to defend what I do, just discuss it in a gentle and considered way and hopefully provide some insights for those interested.

I don't think anyone wants to defend what they do... but some memebers get challenged while others don't. I don't think I have ever seen anyone question your bird keeping experience Kenny nor have I ever seen anything like this questioning a newcomer like Dean the canary man like this either and still is questioning his ways. Even when you say you have used the same products that he has used they don't even ask you why or challenge you to prove they work. Strange group of educated people... maybe it's just the debate format you guys learned in college

I guess what I was trying to say is that I have probably tried most things suggested on this forum for birds and even I have questions about whether some work or not or maybe have no effect whatsoever, good or bad. I was trying to communicate to new people that even very experienced people are open to questioning their bird keeping methods and providing we don't do anything to effect the birds detrimentally then maybe they might like to think about these suggestions. When I mention certain things that I have tried I am very careful not to assert that any of them are the only answer or must be done. Rather it is just a bit of a tale about my experiences in the finch world, which I hope may be interesting, nothing else. Most of the scientific debate between participants on this topic can be researched on the internet, with substantial credible evidence to back it up. That is why I suggested we return to a more simpler uncomplicated style easily digested by newcomers. Just my point of view only. however I do think that a main thrust of the forum should be about helping new and inexperienced people.

[purplejasminevn]

A lot of this information may be too complex and over complicated for many participants to this forum. It would be great to get back to providing insights and information on finch keeping for the newer finch people, rather than engage in scientific debate . There appears to be no, or very few, comments posted from newer finch owners on this topic, which I think says everything!!! We don't want to scare them away. Obviously Tiffany and Cindy have sound scientific experience/knowledge/qualifications, at their fingertips and that should just be accepted as fact. I made a decision a long time ago that the only time I would personalise a post would be to compliment/support the person named and that is what I do. I read all of the very extensive comments on this topic again this morning. Once i had finished reading them I had to walk out into the aviaries to remind me what the hobby is all about. Keeping healthy happy birds!!!!!

I think most of the newbies are afraid to post anything here, not wanting to be drawn into the 'debate'. Either that, or it has simply become too repetitive. It reminds me of when I first joined another forum. It was a heated time, and the jabs and comments flew back and forth. As a newcomer, I sat back, read the comments, and almost left the group, as I didn't think it was a place I wanted to be. I definitely was intimidated by all the 'experienced' people who couldn't seem to agree on anything, and wondered what in the world I was doing there. This is a hobby for me, supposed to be fun, and I assume that is the reason most people on this forum have finches. I would venture to guess that most members just want to enjoy their pets and not feel like they are doing wrong by them. It doesn't have to be so complicated for many of us!

Sally
As a new member kind of - I am glad you see and speak up what you have been. May I just say - in my opinion

there is different between being bold and being bully.

Thank you for reading the post

[Sally]

Guys, I have found an odd but strange method, like listerine, pinesole!!!! It kills germs, just I would add 1 tblsp for every 2 gallons. Now there is a great article on this, so I think I shall try it. Has anybody else heard of this?? Interesting!

I was cracking a joke! Hahaha! Get it? No?

Dante, thanks for trying to bring a bit of levity to this thread, I appreciate it!

[purplejasminevn]

"I don't think anyone wants to defend what they do... but some memebers get challenged while others don't. I don't think I have ever seen anyone question your bird keeping experience Kenny nor have I ever seen anything like this questioning a newcomer like Dean the canary man like this either and still is questioning his ways. Even when you say you have used the same products that he has used they don't even ask you why or challenge you to prove they work. Strange group of educated people... maybe it's just the debate format you guys learned in college "

May I just say - This is exactly how I feel as a new member “but some members get challenged while others don't"
I have 0.0001 % experience in Finches compare to all of you guys here. It is my hobby and I love to read all post. I am hoping to complete reading post that all the way back to 2007.
Please be open Minded ... I can't tell you guys how much I like this Finch forum. I spend hours of reading the post/ Finch room info before I decided to get my first few pairs of Finches from SW.

Thank you for Listening

[purplejasminevn]

ha ha ha

You are funny -

Guys, I have found an odd but strange method, like listerine, pinesole!!!! It kills germs, just I would add 1 tblsp for every 2 gallons. Now there is a great article on this, so I think I shall try it. Has anybody else heard of this?? Interesting!

I was cracking a joke! Hahaha! Get it? No?

[The canary man]

I agree, no religion should be brought up, but it's lent people! Have fun! Who's not eating meat tommorow?

I have a question, as Candace has said previously: That dilution of listerine could not even kill the bacteria in your mouth"

If this dilution is so weak, is there a point to giving it to the birds? What big a difference does it make in the water?

Tiffany i may need your help and others regarding :
I am in processing to study
1) Why God provided canaries and finches with only 18 flight feathers in each wing not less or more?

I believe this a question for God, not Tiffany.

I do not blame you my friend may be you still young to understand the question but some day you will .

[The canary man]

I think well do not you have your own practice, Do you know that you can go to Walmart and buy microscope for only 150.00$ to run a test on this and that rather than keep standing on table with brooking leg

Only 150.00?!

Iam sorry i meant to say 150.00$ for teen age to start with, i bought 4 of them one for my 2 years old Son to start with and the rest to give away.
You made me laugh my friend you are funny