Campylobacter and Cochlosoma (C&C)

[bugaboo5]

I was wondering if anyone could chime in on Campylobacter and Cochlosoma and how it is spread. How do societies become carriers of these bacterias? Is it spread through feces? Water source? Food? Is it airborne? Does there need to be cloaca contact? Like a STD? Or will societies become carriers of C&C only if their parents were carriers?

What would happen if you housed clean societies with possibly unclean societies? Will the disease and bacteria spread to clean birds if present?

I'm just perplexed by this because all the websites talk about the adverse affects of these bacterial diseases, but none talk about how it is contracted to begin with.

Any experience or knowledge on this issue would be appreciated greatly! Thank you.

[Dayna]

From what I have gathered is that it travels by bodily fluids(?) Not sure that's the right word I'm looking for but with gouldian chicks it is transfered to the crop from the societies feeding the babies so therefore would transfer to the drinking water too. As far as poop I don't know but I have heard some people say to never keep societies that have C and C in the same room as gouldians because it will spread from cage to cage till the whole room is infected so would therefore be airborne but I have also heard that as long as you keep them caged seperately they do not contaminate the other finches. Hopefully someone els can shine some more light on the topic

[bugaboo5]

You see, that's exactly what I heard as well. There is so much conflicting information in regards to this. I was aware that it got transferred to gouldians (when fostered) under society parents who were carriers. But I want to know how societies become carriers in the first place. I've researched multiple sources and there's only mention of treatment and the effects of C&C but no information on how societies get C&C and how to prevent it from spreading.

[DanteD716]

I think it is spread these three ways:

To young from parents (being fed)
To others from drinking water
To others by feeding (in courtship, etc)


I am not sure if there are any more. The only way to get rid of a bloodline of C&C is to take the eggs away from "dirty" birds, and have them fostered under "clean" birds. This way you are 100% sure they are clean.

Cochlosoma: http://ladygouldianfinch.com/features_canker.php
Coccidiosis: http://ladygouldianfinch.com/features_coccidiosis.php

[bugaboo5]

Well, I'm pretty sure societies do not feed each other during breeding/mating. So if I understand you correctly -- C&C is spread via drinking water and if food dishes are shared? Parent feeding baby is definite. And if eggs from infected parents who are carriers are fostered under non-carrier "clean" parents, the embryos will be clean as well? Is it definite that genetics are not involved in this?

[DanteD716]

Well, I'm pretty sure societies do not feed each other during breeding/mating. So if I understand you correctly -- C&C is spread via drinking water and if food dishes are shared? Parent feeding baby is definite. And if eggs from infected parents who are carriers are fostered under non-carrier "clean" parents, the embryos will be clean as well? Is it definite that genetics are not involved in this?

It is definite it has nothing to do with genetics. Also, I did not mean during the actual mating, but pairs do feed each other. My m/f pairs do it all the time. Especially when the hen is on the nest. My three males even feed amonst each other. It is NOT through a food dish, because it must be through a fluid. Parents feeding baby is definite. Ad yes, eggs fostered under non carriers will be clean chicks. Since zebras for example do not carry C&C you can use them to foster societies for clean societies. (unless the foster zebras were fostered by dirty societies when they were young)

[cindy]

Go to pages 1189 and 1190 in regards to both issues. http://www.ivis.org/advances/harrison_2/chap43.pdf

[bugaboo5]

It is definite it has nothing to do with genetics. Also, I did not mean during the actual mating, but pairs do feed each other. My m/f pairs do it all the time. Especially when the hen is on the nest. My three males even feed amonst each other. It is NOT through a food dish, because it must be through a fluid. Parents feeding baby is definite. Ad yes, eggs fostered under non carriers will be clean chicks. Since zebras for example do not carry C&C you can use them to foster societies for clean societies. (unless the foster zebras were fostered by dirty societies when they were young)

Hmm, that's odd. I have had societies for 15+ years now and I have never seen adult societies feed each other. I have seen canaries, green singers, and hook bills do this, however.

You are positive that C&C is spread exclusively via fluid? And you are certain that it is not spread airborne as well? In regards to your zebra finch comment -- I am almost positive I have read somewhere that zebras can be carriers of C&C; at least the cochlosoma.

http://www.oropharma.nl/gauss/Pages/EN/ ... llaten.htm

[bugaboo5]

Go to pages 1189 and 1190 in regards to both issues. http://www.ivis.org/advances/harrison_2/chap43.pdf

Thank you for sharing the text. But the text does not identify how Bengalese/Societies become carriers of the two bacterias. How C&C spreads and how other societies become carriers of it.

I have definite "clean" societies but I would like to acquire additional colors-mutations. So using this hypothetical example, if I house "clean" societies with unconfirmed "clean" societies, will the C&C spread to the clean societies? And how? DanteD has suggested that it spreads via fluids. So the spread is not airborne? Or something as simple as a infected bird brushing their beak against a perch?

[debbie276]

campylobacter is a bacteria here is a link to a fact sheet from the USDA

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Factsheets/Cam ... /index.asp

The bacteria pass through the body in the feces and cycle through the environment. They are also found in untreated water.

[cindy]

A study done on Cochlosoma in finches

http://lib.bioinfo.pl/paper:9293335

[cindy]

this is an older topic thread on both

http://www.finchforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18414

[CandoAviary]

The society finch was derived from hybridizing the Lonchura species. These live in Africa and have a natural resitance to many of the "wet" diseases.
Gouldians on the other hand come from drier regions of Australia and just don't have much immunity to many of the wetter type, dirty conditions as the lonchura species do.
So the society can become carriers of these things yet not appear to be sick from them... however if they feed young..or are housed with goulds or other type "dry" or nonresistant birds those birds have no natural immunity.

People also will build immunities to things in their enviroment so that they can live comfortably... but when they travel to a new area may come down with a disease that their bodies never had an opportunity to build a natural immunity to.
Allergies and pollens are a good example. In your area your body may become desensitized to the local pollens but on a plane and fly somewhere where there is different fauna blooming and you just may have a bad case of hayfever... until your body can build up a defense against the new invaders.

[cindy]

Info on how Camplyobcter is spread to animals and humans

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/divisions/dfb ... ylobacter/

Like some humans, some societies are carriers.

[ac12]

Mixing societies together will risk "contaminating" your clean societies.
If the new birds are carriers, your current birds will pick up the disease and become carriers of the disease.

I keep my new societies in a separate room from my flock, until proven clean. I "test" if they are clean by having them raise a couple gouldian chicks to weaning. If the chick does not make it to weaning, there is a good chance that the societies are carriers of either disease.

It was suggested that zebras might also be suseptible to C&C, and thus be an easier and cheaper "guinea pig." But this has not been confirmed, so I am sticking to using a gouldian chick.

The other way to test is to get a lab test done on them. While faster, the lab test is too expensive for me to afford for multiple societies.
$100 * 4 birds = $400