Still curious about this-heart shaped tail bars(pic heavy)

[LuxandLolita]

I am not sure what it means. it could be completely normal as far as i know. But i am STILL learning the genetics and mutations of zebra finches. I love it!
So whatever it means, Lux passed it on to Tahny. The white bars on the tail are heart shaped. more exaggerated on Lux then Tahny but i noticed that Tahny has a few as well. I don't have recent pictures of Tahny's tail hearts but i do have a few from Lux who has always had them.

this one is an ok picture of showing it

Here is a picture of tahny when she was like a month old she will be three months old on the fifth! but you can see the heart shape soemwhat. they are more pronounced now though


Lux is pretty pronounced in this one as well. He is the only male.
These are all pictures of before and when the babies were a month old. I don't have any current pictures but i will soon!
This is what they look like now. very pronounced hearts

i think it is adorable

[LuxandLolita]

I only know of a few mutations that changes the tail feathers. anyone know?

[cindy]

As far s I know the heart shapes do not specify a mutation. The only ones that I am aware of where the pattern change in the bars and indicates a specifc mutation is BB (including splits), OB and penguin. (note...not all splits will show indicators for the mutation in the tail feathers. BB and OB are recessive, if one parent carries the trait or gene all offspring inherit the gene)

[LuxandLolita]

Yes i know. this is why i am confused. i have not seen it before i got Lux. He passed it on to his daughters. I am wondering if i eventually breed Tahny if she will pass it onto her chicks? but it seems to be something that is genetically passed down.

And since the chicks are split to BB and she does not have hour glasses, could this just be a more 'diluted' sign of split? maybe Lux was the bb carrier and not Lolita? this is what confuses me most

Also, Tahny still kept the thin thin tear mark. So i know it was not just baby feathers!

[cindy]

No, not that I am aware of...if she inherited the gene from her father it will be passed on...the heart shape can be seen in some of my birds that do not have the BB gene. As far I am aware and accoring to the experts (sites) the hourglass is the indicator for split, the full visual can be seen on this sight.... http://www.efinch.com/species/bbzeb.htm
http://www.zebrafinch.com/NewZebra/blackbreast.html

Not all physical indicators will show on a bird...I have young from the same clutch that are split to and BB that do not show indicators in the tail bar but the have the same lineage.

[LuxandLolita]

This confuses me though. All normal greys i have seen have normal strait tail bars. The girls only had one or two feathers that looked BB at all on each of them. I find this funny still... But you do see what i mean right?

Tahny's though, is the most prominent of all of them. You can't see her tail feathers in this pic but here is the whole family

Here is a good one of tahny's tail hearts. Lux has them and Tahny is the finch without a head in this pic Falcon is looking at the camera and gus is staring into space. Lux is the boy obviously

[cindy]

Katie...indicators for split to BB don't always show in the tail, it can show in the markings around the beak or the bird does not show any at all. In a previous post one had the hourglass tail feather....if one is split, all young are split and either it came from the mom or dad who is hiding the trait but because it is recessive and all it takes is one parent to pass it onto all the offspring.

[LuxandLolita]

I understand that part
Maybe it is just something to do with enviornment? type of food maybe? breeding condition? i don't know...

[cindy]

As we discussed in previous threads the really true way to prove they are indeed split to BB is match the offspring to another split BB or full visual BB....if you get BB offspring then you know both parents carry the gene.

[LuxandLolita]

I don't understand.. I was talking about the heart shape.. what it could be due to

[cindy]

I as far as I know does not indicate a certain mutation...it is most likey a pattern passed down through generations that at one time may have been a marker...not sure. But I have not found any information on a heart shape marker for mutation. Some have bars, some have dots, some have hearts shapes. The only markers I know of and read about are true indicators are in BB (splits included), OB and penguin.

The true way to see what your birds are carrying gene wise is to breed them to other mutations you suspect the offspring carry..

[LuxandLolita]

hmm i still believe this is interesting. Now i will keep my eye out for a boy with heart bars as well! If i never find a bb boy, maybe one day i will find a heart boy. Then i can see if it is actually a split to a weird mutation or something you never know! it could be a new sign. or it could just be a family thing. who knows
Thanks for the help!

[cindy]

Katie...have birds with that pattern, I have not found it is linked to any different mutation as of yet.

[LuxandLolita]

Oh well. maybe its just a trait. Like feet size in humans.