New Gouldian died suddenly - what to do with mate?

[lyswood]

Hi all -

We got a pair of Gouldian finches on Sunday - both male - and they seemed well and happy their first night and morning with us. Yesterday afternoon/evening, one started sitting puffed up with his eyes closed. He would go from this behavior to hopping around and eating like normal, on and off, the rest of the night. I tucked them in and he was still pretty quiet and puffy, so I was worried.

This morning he was worse, and slept for a few hours perched on a short ladder about an inch or two off of the cage floor. A few hours later he fell off the ladder, so I moved him to a more comfortable folded paper towel on the floor of the cage - I knew it was grim - where he laid for about 10 minutes before flopping around to the other side of the cage and dying before my eyes.

I have NO idea what happened! He was either sick when we got him and hiding it (which I know they're good at) or perhaps the stress of his new environs and diet caught up with him. He wasn't even with us 36 hours.

I've been watching his buddy all day and while he was obviously stressed when the other bird was dying, he's been sleek and fairly active for the last 5 hours. He's eating treat seeds and millet, and responds when I talk and whistle to him. Even chirped a bit ago - he might be okay.

Does anyone have any advice on what to do for him? He seems well, but so did the other guy until very suddenly. I know they don't like to be alone, so our plan is to wait a couple of weeks to ensure this bird is healthy before seeking another friend for him. I'm getting the number of the man we bought them from tonight and can call him as well, but I'm not sure I'll get a good answer.

We're not new to birds, but these are our first finches. I've been scouring the web for hours (including this site) and am armed with some information - would love to hear what the folks here think.

Thank you so much in advance,
Malyssa

[bugaboo5]

So sorry for your loss. If the birds were from a breeder, I would contact the breeder and try to understand what could have happened. As for the lone male -- it would be good to closely monitor him. Make sure there is nothing in their environment that could possibly make them sick (for example, toxic fumes via air fresheners, candles, incense, etc).

If you can, fill in your location as it can be helpful in answering questions in the future. Additionally, if you feel the lone male is showing symptoms of sickness, provide a heat source (desk lamp) to keep him warm. Good luck and again, sorry for your loss. He was a beauty.

[DanteD716]

First off, welcome to the foruma dn the wonderful world of finches, they are great additions to any collection. On th left top corner there is a link for the Finch Info center which helps alot in housing, diet and mixing species or choosing a species. Hope you are active on the forum!!!

The male who passed was beautiful, so sorry you lost him.. He kind of looks old, where did you get him from? Contact the seller ASAP!

I do not know what could have did it, was he eating fine? I hope the other male is OK and yes they hide things very well, keep him on close watch.

Make sure you quarantine the new birds, and gouldians actually are solitairy birds but another bird would help.. maybe a female? But males are more colorful and sing, if you don't want breeding another male. Keep us posted, ps your male RH PB GB looks like he has droopy wings in the picture.

Also did your bird have any abnormal droppings?

[debbie276]

I know this is probably not an issue but you say they were eating, did they drink? Do you use water bottles? Where they used to them and knew how to drink from them?
Just throwing ideas out there, so sorry for your loss.

[Sally]

debbie 276 has raised a good point, birds die faster from dehydration than from not eating. Sometimes, in a new cage/flight, it takes them a while to figure out where everything is. I once lost a newly-acquired bird because I had 5 birds in quarantine in one cage, and I didn't realize that the one was not eating till it was too late. I'm so sorry you lost one of your birds so soon--hopefully, the breeder can give you some advice.

[lyswood]

Thank you all for your insight. This is the first time I've read that Gouldians are solitary birds. I have found SOOO many sites that say exactly the opposite. If he would be happy alone, we'd be happy to keep him by himself - I've just read so much about them needing a buddy that I assumed he'd be unhappy without one.

The picture I submitted was taken last night, when the bird who died (Newman) had been showing signs of not feeling well. In the photo his eyes are squinting and I agree that he looks old - I think it's the photo, though - he didn't look old in person and until he started feeling unwell, he was really active and chirpy. These birds are 2 years old, I was told, but I will definitely ask the man I bought them from! Thank you for bringing it up!

I think the photo is the culprit of the remaining bird's (Kramer) droopy wing appearance as well - they were balancing there on that little treat cup. His wings don't droop normally.

I was also concerned about dehydration. I did see both birds drinking from their water last night - Kramer just did it right now as I'm watching - so I'm confident they knew where it was. It's not a bottle, just the regular plastic containers that came with the cage. Is a bottle better?

I've looked at their poop and compared it to healthy photos (the things we do for our critters!) - as much as I can tell, it's normal. I'm far from an expert, however.

I'm anxious to talk to the breeder and will ask him these things. I really hope Kramer makes it - he's so beautiful and seems very sweet. I just want him to be happy, whether that means getting him another playmate or keeping him by himself with extra attention. Whatever's best for him.

Oh - I'm in Minneapolis, MN - sorry I forgot to put that in my original post. If I should get him another bird and anyone knows of reputable breeders in my area, that would be fabulous. I'm so happy to have birds again - would love this to work out.

Thanks again!
Malyssa

[Sally]

Actually, finches as a rule do not like to be alone. I'm sure Kramer would like a buddy, but not until you have had him long enough to make sure that he is in good health. Bottles are not necessarily better, some people use them over other things, but if you do use bottles, you have to make sure the birds know how to get the water. Water dishes are always safe, as every bird can see the water and easily get to it.

Unfortunately, you may never know what went wrong, it is the most frustrating part of keeping finches. Usually, when they die from stress, it is not as fast as in this case. It will be interesting to hear what the breeder has to say.

[ac12]

One thing to be careful on is the food.
If the food is something they are not used to, they may not recognize it as food, and won't eat. Even different kinds of seeds could be a problem. I lost a gouldian after I changed her diet, I did not realize that she was not eating enough of the new seed mix. And she starved to death. It "looked" like she was eating, but she was just throwing seeds about and not eating enough.

The problem you may run into is, the breeder may say, "the bird was fine when I sold it to you." Implying that something that you did caused the bird to die. Hope the breeder will give you a replacement or at least a big discount on another bird, mine did not.

[debbie276]

Gouldians are flock birds so a buddy will make him very happy when the time is right. Like Sally said, be sure he is in good health before introducing another friend. As long as he knew where the water was and was eating that probably isn't your problem. It could have just been the stress for that bird and you may never know the reason.
I would be VERY surprised if any breeder that sells you a bird doesn't say "the bird was fine when I sold it to you." Most breeders only sell good healthy birds.

[Jasmin]

This is the first time I've read that Gouldians are solitary birds. I have found SOOO many sites that say exactly the opposite. If he would be happy alone, we'd be happy to keep him by himself - I've just read so much about them needing a buddy that I assumed he'd be unhappy without one.

Everything I've read as well say that Gouldians are social birds, and as a Gouldian owner, seeing how much they seem to enjoy other finch company, I am inclined to say that he might be better off with a friend. I did have a male alone for about 4-5 months and he was ok and happy, but now that he's housed with 3 other Gouldians, he seems sooooooo much more active, chirpy and social. And 2 would be more fun for you to watch

[lyswood]

Thank you for the responses - I'm speaking to another breeder in my area and he has some single males he can sell me. Kramer seems to be alright, though since he's been alone he's only eating the treat seed and the millet, and only from the little treat cup/mirror. Yesterday I worried he was eating constantly, and today he was just sitting by the mirror and not eating anything, because I put the good pellets and seed in the treat cup to see if he'd start eating them again. Nope.

I put some celery in there and gave in a put a bit of the treat seed, and he's eating it now. I'm probably over-worrying about him, but the treats aren't supposed to be more than 20% of his diet (according to the can). I know he ate the other stuff before - they tore right through it and were both in the dish together at one point. Then when Newman was very sick, Kramer was in there eating. I don't know why he won't do it now - maybe he's just being fussy.

Overall, I think he's doing well. He chirps sometimes - right this minute he's drinking his water - he uses his cuttlebone and seems responsive to us when we talk to him. Spends most of his awake time next to that mirror, which makes me think we do need a buddy soon. The breeder thought we could get one as soon as we were ready - I had planned to wait a week or two. Now I'm wondering if we should go Saturday.

Did not expect so much drama with these guys - we had birds for so many years and all was fine. Yikes. Oh - and the breeder who sold them to us of course was dismayed that the one died, but had no guarantee and did nothing. I'm suspicious, because he asked which one died - he said "one had a white breast, is that one okay?" That's the one that died...makes me wonder. Neither here nor there at this point, but we did learn a lesson.

Thanks again for the advice - really love these birds and have read so much - the more I read and learn, the more I want to have them in my life.

[Sally]

Happy to hear you will be getting a buddy for Kramer, he will love having a friend. The treat seeds are like candy, he will only want to eat them. A better treat right now would be spray millet. All finches love spray millet, but it is really just plain millet in a more natural form. So even if they eat only the spray millet, they are still getting basic seed, not too much 'candy'. Gouldians are notoriously picky eaters, so you will have to try different things to entice him to eat--most of my finches love broccoli chopped fine, kale, collard greens.

Every breeder has a different policy on how they handle birds that die after being sold. The biggest problem is that the seller has no control once the bird left their hands, and in some ways, that really does put the seller at a disadvantage. I have lost birds shortly after purchasing them (I even had one drop dead at the bird mart after I'd purchased it), yet the birds looked perfectly healthy when I purchased them--I wouldn't have gotten them if they had not looked healthy.

Did you purchase the birds at a mart? Marts are stressful. I have had birds puff up at a mart and not look well, and so they were not sold. One little bird put on a great act at a mart, like a kid pretending to be sick to get out of going to school, and as soon as we got home, he had a miraculous recovery! I always swore he did that on purpose.

[DanteD716]

Hopefully the breeder is not selling sick birds.. I hope Kramer does well and you can get him some friends. Maybe the breeder did not know? He could have atleast gave you a discounted bird so yours is not alone.. Maybe he asked about the wite breast because they are harder to find than the purple breast

[debbie276]

Glad things seem to be well with Kramer, he will be happy to have a buddy I'm sure.
Best of luck

[lyswood]

We got them at a bird fair, which is pretty stressful on them. They looked so healthy - and when we got them home they seemed great - he was fine for a day before showing symptoms.

I don't blame the breeder - just makes us a little wary, I guess. Maybe he did ask about the white b/c they're harder to find - I didn't know that fact.

I'm hoping this new person will be available Saturday - the way Kramer sits by the mirror, I think he needs a friend soon. He does eat spray millet, so that's good. I'll keep working to get him to eat the other stuff. Before I introduced the treat they loved the other food, so it's probably my fault. I'll keep trying veggies. He didn't bite on the broccoli yesterday but I didn't chop it up, rather hooked it to the side of the cage for him to pick at. Didn't work with the candy in the dish.

You are all so helpful - thank you so much!