Breeding societies...for color

[love4finches]

I recently got myself into hot water. I took a yet another "pair" of this time societies. Beautiful. Both are definately fawn pieds and from different families. You can't find males anywhere so I was going to breed each of the two societies to my chocolates. I have a male and female. I know for sure that the males will be split to fawns but the females are not. Someone told me this. true? What would you breed the fawns with. My end result: I want to bread fawn pieds, societies. I finally found what I love. The zebras are just too much and I'm enjoying the societies so much with there antics and singing and they are just plain playful and not as jumpy as the zebras. NO MALE FAWNS ANYWHERE! I don't mind waiting generations but don't know what to put them with. Right now I have chocolate pieds coming out of my ears. I'd love to hear any suggestions to get fawns both female and male. I am all set up with different families of males and females so I know no crossbreeding. Can't wait what you all come up with. Thanks so much in advance.

[DanteD716]

From a fawn female and chocolate male:

Chocolate males/fawn
chocolate female

switched around you get:

chocolates males/fawn
fawn femamle
chocolate females

Sex linked so if the females are not visual they do not carry the trait

My suggestion is breed the fawn male to a chocolate hen.
Save all the fawn females produced (all fawns will be females so you do not need to worry about sexing)

Then breed the fawn female to chocolate male, all male chicks will be split to fawn so pair them to the fawn hens from the other pair and ou now have several fawn pairs

[Rispa]

The reason why females can't be split is they have and a X chromosome which carries the mutation and a Z chromosome which does not carry the mutation. Thus females either have it or they don't. Males on the other hand have two X chromosomes, thus one X chromosome can carry the mutation while the other does not, causing the bird to be split to that mutation.

I love bird genetics

[Martie]

You are both correct about the sex linked mutations/variations, but the base body colors (Chocolate, Chestnut, and Fawn) are somatic - and both birds have two copies. In the case of Society base colors, Chocolate is dominant to Chestnut which is dominant to Fawn.

Here's a good visual and description (scroll down to see results of pairings) http://www.nbfa.co.uk/page10.html. Society genetics are surprisingly involved for just a bunch of browns.

[love4finches]

You are both correct about the sex linked mutations/variations, but the base body colors (Chocolate, Chestnut, and Fawn) are somatic - and both birds have two copies. In the case of Society base colors, Chocolate is dominant to Chestnut which is dominant to Fawn.

Here's a good visual and description (scroll down to see results of pairings) http://www.nbfa.co.uk/page10.html. Society genetics are surprisingly involved for just a bunch of browns.

Martie,
Saw this page last night and didn't really understand it. Are they showing at the far right a choc. male and fawn female to get 100% splits.

I found out this morning that both of my fawns are female! Bummer! I think most people here keep their splits and dump the females. Now I have two fawn females.

So now knowing for sure (wishing one fawn was a male, but not):

What would you breed the fawn females with so eventually you have both males and females?

[nixity]

Yeah I was going to say - that would all be true if Fawn in societies was sex-linked but it's not, it's simply an autosomal recessive mutation.
I think people are confusing Fawn Societies with Fawn Owls, which IS a Sex-Linked Mutation.

So anytime you pair a Chocolate to a Fawn all of the offspring (unless the chocolates themselves are carriers of Fawn or Chestnut) are going to be Chocolate/Fawn.

If any Chocolate bird is carrying Chestnut you would get Chocolate/Fawn and Chestnut/Fawn.

If they were carrying Fawn you would get Chocolate/Fawn and Fawn.

Any bird carrying pied will generally ALWAYS pass pied on to its offspring. So if you're looking to produce selfs you will want to NOT use Pieds in your breeding.

[Martie]

Martie,
Saw this page last night and didn't really understand it. Are they showing at the far right a choc. male and fawn female to get 100% splits.

It's because chocolate is dominant to chestnut which is dominant to fawn. So fawn is recessive to everything. So - chocolate parent would contribute one chocolate gene and the fawn parent would contribute one fawn gene. Because chocolate is dominant to fawn, the babies will appear chocolate - but will all carry the recessive fawn gene.

If your chocolate male is split to fawn, you will get some fawn babies if you pair him to one of your fawn hens. That's because your chocolate-split-fawn male can contribute either a chocolate or a fawn gene and your fawn only has fawn genes. So - for those babies where the male contributes fawn, they will be fawn. Where he contributes chocolate, the babies will appear chocolate and carry the recessive fawn gene.

[love4finches]

Ok, I had another idea. I have lots of CFW males. If I breed a female fawn and a male CFW that could work, right? It would take a generation to get fawns. I'd take the male baby CFW/fawn and pair with female fawn and this way I would get fawn males and females, right? I think I'm getting the hang of it. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

[DanteD716]

Ok, I had another idea. I have lots of CFW males. If I breed a female fawn and a male CFW that could work, right? It would take a generation to get fawns. I'd take the male baby CFW/fawn and pair with female fawn and this way I would get fawn males and females, right? I think I'm getting the hang of it. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

try this calculator... zebrafinch.info

If you breed a CFW male with a fawn female you get:

CFW Female
Normal males/cfw and fawn
Normal female

If you breed a CFW/fawn male and fawn female you get:

Fawn CFW females
Fawn males/cfw
fawn females

[love4finches]

I've had a really bad week. I just asked about colors between societies and zebras!!

I need to just rest. I have a choc. male society and I'm just going to breed with my fawn female.

[MissEdie]

Sorry you have had a bad week

I've had a really bad week. I just asked about colors between societies and zebras!!

I need to just rest. I have a choc. male society and I'm just going to breed with my fawn female.

[love4finches]

Just got a true male choc. Putting him with my fawn female. Males will all be split to fawn. Will take one of the male babies and breed back to my second fawn female and start getting fawns. Now that sounds like a plan.

[love4finches]

Here is a pic of one of the fawn society finches. The other one is almost identical so uploaded one pic fyi:

[DanteD716]

Pretty, looks a bit dark! (the birds color)

[love4finches]

What does the dark color mean? Does she have coloring from the parents where one wasn't a fawn? What would you breed her with so I can get fawn babies?