HELP - Baby Goulds dying

[wilkifam]

Help! Baby goulds are dying in the nest. Parents are a little over a year old. Cock is a blue (red head), Hen is a normal red head.
This pair has had 3 clutches of babies this year,
They seem to be excellent parents, babies have food in their crops.
Clutch #1, 4 4ggs, 3 fertile, 1 dead in egg, 1 dead first day, 1 died day 2.
Clutch #2, 4 eggs, 2 infertile, Only 1 hatched, died on day 4
Clutch #3, 4 eggs, all 4 hatched, 2 died on day 5, 1 on day 6, 1 still alive.
Any ideas?
Lori

[L in Ontario]

That's going to be a tough call. Are they simply dying on their own? Are there any skin wounds that the parents may be inflicting? Are the parents feeding them right up to the end? And lastly, are the parents related ?

[wilkifam]

Parents are not related. No visible marks of any kind on the chicks. Crops are full.

[Lisa]

Lori, they are all dying with full crops? Very odd. Maybe the parents are trampling/suffocating them within the nest or somehow contracting some sort of infection or maybe even a genetic factor kicking in. Do the parents seem sickly at all? Has this pair ever successfully raised a clutch?

If they've had 3 clutches this year, I would give them a break and remove the nest. When you do put the nest back in, I would give them a new one with all new materials.

[wilkifam]

They still have one live chick. Parents are very healthy. Again, seem to be excellent parents. I plan to remove nest as soon as I see what happens with this last chick. Should I separate the pair too, or just remove the nest?

Lori

[Sally]

To me, it sounds like it could be a bacterial infection of some type. I'm not familiar enough with the various infections to guess what, but I can't think of a reason otherwise for babies dying with full crops. How do the poops of the parents look?

[wilkifam]

Parents seem to be in excellent health, poops look great, they are not related and these are their first 3 clutches, they are just a bit over a year old. So no, they have never successfully raised a clutch. I plan to remove the nest and give them a break, but I still have one live chick. Hope he makes it, but I don’t have a lot of hope that he will, given that all the others have died. When I do remove the nest, should I separate the pair?

[Sally]

Have you thought of trying to handfeed this little one, or are you going to see if the parents can raise it? If you separate the pair, do you have other birds to put them with? If not, I'd leave them together and just remove the nest. Some would treat with Ronivet 12% for 5-7 days, but I don't have experience with this. Hopefully, someone with more experience with Gouldians or with this situation will check in.

[wilkifam]

Have not thought about handfeeding because the parents are feeding and caring for it. The crop is full. I do have everything I need to hand feed, but have never attempted it.

[L in Ontario]

You don't need to separate the parents unless you have another cage available. I do separate my pairs during their non-breeding season.

What type of nest and materials do you use?

This must be so sad and frustrating for you.

I hope the last chick makes it.

[Sally]

I agree with Liz, this has to be so frustrating. So the one living baby is about a week old?

[wilkifam]

Living baby is about 5 days old. I only have one kind of medication presently enrofloxn/baytril 10%. Could it do more harm than good to the baby?

[L in Ontario]

Oooh I don't think you can give antibiotics to a chick that young. Anyone else have thoughts on that?

[Sally]

I wouldn't, but in the morning, I would call the lady on this website. Her name is Laraine, she is very knowledgeable about medicines, health, and Gouldians. Her phone number is right there on the home page. She has helped many members in the past.

http://ladygouldian.com/

[nixity]

Any chance either of the parents were society fostered?
This sounds pretty darn close to symptoms of Campylobacter.

What is the nest like? Are the nestlings' droppings wet and sticky? Does the nest have a sweet smelling or sour smell to it from the droppings?

This is obviously all speculation but at this point it is obvious there is a clinical issue with the pair in terms of some sort of infection or disease.

The other two things that come to mind are Circovirus and Atoxoplasmosis.

Circovirus generally kills nestlings around 1-5 days of age and is sometimes linked in connection to a black spot typically seen on the right side of the nestling's abdomen between 1-3 days of age.
What rules out circo for me is generally these babies fail to beg and often die with empty crops.

So.. perhaps Atoxo which is a blood form of Coccidiosis - the nestlings will often have what looks to be an abdomen full of air (especially at time of death), diarrhea, ruffled feathers (if they get that far).. so you'd see a wet nest for their droppings which should be nice and tight in a healthy nest. (Sometimes you see the black spot with this as well)

To be quite honest, I would NOT recommend handfeeding this chick. Yes, it could potentially save it, but if it has either of the above, it runs the risk of itself becoming a carrier for life and passing whatever it is one of the parents' has down to further generations.

I would also suggest discontinuing breeding either of these birds and keep them away from the rest of your flock until you can isolate what the issue is.