HELP - Baby Goulds dying

[L in Ontario]

Thank you for all your help here Tiff and for explaining it all in a way we low-techies can understand.

Best wishes Lori! Do keep us updated on whatever you decide to do.

[wilkifam]

Last baby died last night. Took the nest box away and examined it closely. NO black spot on this chick, empty crop. VERY few droppings in the nest at all, NO smell from nest either.

Lori

[kenny66]

points from my experience to consider:

1 Some Blues can be difficult to produce chicks to adulthood (not all)
2 Whilst not common, it does happen with Goulds that chicks die in the nest with full crops and attentive parents-likely cause is a protozoan.
3 ACV at the rate of 3ml/litre water prior to and during breeding can be very beneficial in controlling yeast based infections such as Megabacteria
4 Keep the parents together-don't separate
5 Dont medicate the chick
6 Initial begging response is weak but at day 5 should be obvious. Once the chick starts begging either weak or strong, feed it. At that age and under these conditions I am feeding every 2 hours. The full crop should look like a yellow tumor- it should be full full.
7 Keep heat on the chick , a 60W globe 12-15 inches from the chick-keep a shot glass of water near the chick under heat for humidity
8 Unfortunately sometimes blood and poop cultures are inconclusive (here anyway)
9 IMO The black spot described indicates a liver issue
Hope this is of help

[L in Ontario]

Sorry you lost the last chick though I suppose it was not unexpected. Do you think you will be submitting any culture samples?

Nice post/response Kenny66. Concise and to the point.

[Sally]

Thanks for that input, Kenny, it always helps to get as much perspective as possible when dealing with health problems.

And sorry you lost this last one, Lori. When they are not actively begging at that age, it is not a good sign, because that begging instinct is normally so strong.

[nixity]

I realize this is gruesome, but what did the chick look like when it died?
Here are some pictures of a dead nestling with food in crop due to possible protozoal infection (warning... explicit/may bother some people)





In this picture you can see the upper part of the under side of the baby was almost inverted, but the trachea and esophageal area look almost inflamed and were protruding.


You can also see that the baby was suffering developmental issues by the size of the wings - they were not developing properly due to whatever infection was going on. (These were society raised by a new pair I was testing back in 2009 and all chicks died - I assumed it was probably Campylobacter or Cochlosoma or some other related bacterial or protozoan disease but I didn't have any necropsies performed - I re-homed the societies to non-gouldian breeders)
You may also notice the head has an overly domed look to it - almost like it is protruding up, instead of being smooth and round (compare below).

Anytime I've seen people post pictures with babies that have similar development issues they tend to come back later saying the babies have died.

These are examples of how healthy babies at that age should look:

[Sally]

And that begging instinct is so strong that in that last photo of Tiffany's, even with all those stuffed, sated crops, the one baby still wants to beg.

Thanks for posting those photos, Tiffany, as it is hard for people to visualize, and this gives a comparison of a baby that was sick with babies that are healthy. For me, my first indication that I have a problem with a handfed is when they don't want to beg, or beg very weakly. They may still look OK, but the behavior is off.

[wilkifam]

I have errands to run, but will post pics of the chicks later tonight. Crop was EMPTY on the last chick that died.

Lori

[wilkifam]

What is ACV?

points from my experience to consider:

1 Some Blues can be difficult to produce chicks to adulthood (not all)
2 Whilst not common, it does happen with Goulds that chicks die in the nest with full crops and attentive parents-likely cause is a protozoan.
3 ACV at the rate of 3ml/litre water prior to and during breeding can be very beneficial in controlling yeast based infections such as Megabacteria
4 Keep the parents together-don't separate
5 Dont medicate the chick
6 Initial begging response is weak but at day 5 should be obvious. Once the chick starts begging either weak or strong, feed it. At that age and under these conditions I am feeding every 2 hours. The full crop should look like a yellow tumor- it should be full full.
7 Keep heat on the chick , a 60W globe 12-15 inches from the chick-keep a shot glass of water near the chick under heat for humidity
8 Unfortunately sometimes blood and poop cultures are inconclusive (here anyway)
9 IMO The black spot described indicates a liver issue
Hope this is of help

[wilkifam]

Can't take pics tonight, my camera went camping with my hubby. I did save the babies, and will look at them tonight and compare with the pics. Tiffany you are awesome, thanks for all the help and advice everyone!

Lori

[Sally]

ACV = apple cider vinegar.

I like to use organic.

[Lisa]

Lori, so sorry to hear that the last baby passed too