Gouldian genetics forecast on -line

debbie276 · Post by **debbie276** » Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:24 pm

OK, didn't understand the "option G+ or choose from the other offered options" but either way I went to the link and clicked to see if you have any lutino info and none of your drop down menu's would work for me

I guess I was just not meant to use it

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:22 pm

GG (GREEN): green (sex-linked colour XG; XG

I realize this is probably semantics but I just want everyone to understand that the normal "green" body color is not controlled (at least not entirely) by sex chromosomes and thus not exactly "sex-linked."

The green body color is due to a combination of genes, pigments, and structural colors which result in the green color we see. Describing it as "sex-linked dominant" to avoid confusion or to simplify things is not a crime, just not entirely accurate. The genes, et.al., responsible for the green body coloration are incompletely dominant to yellow body (the pastel factor, which is located on the Z sex chromosome), and dominant to blue body (which is an autosomal recessive factor).

Marek · Post by **Marek** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:28 am

Greetings

I agree with you. Simplification is sometimes a highway to hell. However, genetics forecaster, which you evaluate, was created many years ago and my experiences then were somewhat different. I used a notation of colors, which I do not use anymore. In the current times I mostly use notation of pigments.

As far as notation goes, it is of the authors choosing. Whether it is color notation, or notation of chromosomes. I use a notation where male chromosomes are XX and female are XY.

In the current time I am working on a new genetic calculator, which is based on pigment notation. I also use a new notation.

Yes, green color, as well as silver, or other colors are a result of several genes influence, the least being 2.

The gene for eumelanin in my new notation is labeled EE, and its recessive alleles ee – this gene is located on the sex-linked X chromosome. Gene for carotenoid lutein I label as KK, recessive alleles kk and it is located on an autosome.

Yellow color, practically the absence of eumelanin is incompletely dominant (incomplete dominance means, that SF and DF birds differ in phenotype, with complete dominance SF and DF birds would have the same phenotype, with codominance both colors would show fully…)

Blue color, or more precisely parblue – as in GF it is not a complete loss of carotenoids, this color is autosomal recessive.

Green color is created by cooperation of the eumelanin gene and carotenoids gene. So I include a few examples:

A green male would be noted as: EE ; KK (2 alleles on X chromosome for eumelanin and 2 alleles of a different gene on an autosome for lutein)
Green female: E ; Y ; KK
SF yellow (purple breasted) male: Ee ; KK
DF yellow (purple breasted) male: ee; KK
Hemizygous yellow female: e ; Y ; KK
Blue male: EE ; kk (2 alleles for eumelanin, the alleles for lutein are mutated and lutein production is significantly supressed)
Blue female: e ; Y ; kk
Blue pastel male (purple breast): Ee ; kk
Green / blue male: EE ; Kk
Pastel green (SF yellow – purple breasted)/blue: ee ; Kk
SF silver male (white breasted): Ee ; kk
DF silver male (white breasted): ee ; kk
Silver female: e ; Y ; kk
Etc.

I will give a more precise account on this problem, once the translation of body coloring and inheritance is available.

Best regards,
Marek Buransky

http://www.gouldianfinches.eu

P.S. even though genetics forecaster uses the old notification, it works correctly.

debbie276 · Post by **debbie276** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:09 am

I'm just curious, isn't there a scientifically exceptable "notation" for bird genetics? Is it really up to the author to pick and choose what they want?

Marek · Post by **Marek** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:42 am

hi Debbie

I don´t understand your attack to my person. I choose a signs, what suits me. There´s nowhere strictly specified which those markings shall be. Important is to define these signs and that I did. And important is that these signs don´t resist to the laws of genetics.

Best regards,
Marek Buransky

http://www.gouldianfinches.eu

P.S. even though genetics forecaster uses the my signs, it works correctly.

debbie276 · Post by **debbie276** » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:14 am

I'm sorry, didn't mean you to feel attacked.
I personally think most of the confusion with genetics is because we don't all adhere to a common standard. For example, "dilute" can be VERY misunderstood if your talking to someone in Australia.
I just don't see why we shouldn't use consistently the proper terms, if for no other reason then for new people to genetics learn it properly. Perfect example is the male and female symbols, for birds it is ZW for female and ZZ for male, why shouldn't we use that when talking about birds.
I can't get your genetics forecast to work on my computer so I really have no idea how it's laid out, just struck me as strange you would say "I used a notation of colors, which I do not use anymore. In the current times I mostly use notation of pigments.", "As far as notation goes, it is of the authors choosing. Whether it is color notation, or notation of chromosomes." and "In the current time I am working on a new genetic calculator, which is based on pigment notation. I also use a new notation.". Just seems all very confusing but like I said I can't get it to work anyway.

Again sorry if you felt attacked, I thought there were some sort of genetic standards, I stand corrected

Post by **Sally** » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:26 pm

I probably shouldn't jump in here, since I know nothing about Gouldian genetics and haven't really looked at any Gouldian genetic forecaster, but I just wanted to add that I understand Debbie's point about standardized terminology to prevent confusion.

Off-topic, but I once saw a piggyback plant advertised at a local nursery. I had been searching for this plant for months, so I was excited to see it advertised. I called the nursery to confirm that they had some and asked them to hold some for me. I drove almost an hour to the nursery, only to find that what they called piggyback plant was not what I called piggyback plant. I should have used the scientific name, as then they could have told me they did not have any Tolmiea menziesii. Botanists always use scientific names to avoid confusion, as common names are often misleading.

Marek · Post by **Marek** » Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:55 pm

Hello Sally.

I fully agree that it would be appropriate to standardize labels for
mutations and/or genes, which are responsible for color creation.
The problem is, however, that no standardization exists, at least none
that I know of. Every author selects appropriate labels for himself.
The only thing, which is standardized, is labeling of sex-linked
chromosomes, for mammals it is XX and XY and for birds - ABRAXAS style
it is ZZ and ZW.
I, and not only I, use also with birds the XX and XY labeling of
sex-linked chromosomes, I publish materials in a magazine, which is
published in three countries of the European Union and I have so far
met no disapproval, especially as the meaning of each symbol is
clearly defined.
The important matter is that the calculations are correct.

Take care.
Marek

http://www.gouldianfinches.eu
http://www.facebook.com/Gouldianfinches.eu

nixity · Post by **nixity** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:42 am

There are standards if you're talking about color nomenclature, it's just that many people do not use them.

I myself have a hard time using them because the lay names are so much more common that if I'm speaking to a customer and I start blasting out "SF Pastel Green" people look at me like I'm diseased.

I.e., "Yellow" is in fact defined as Pastel.
So - SF Pastel Green = "Sf Yellow" and/or Dilute in US layman's terms, DF Pastel Green = "Df Yellow"

Similarly, SF Pastel Blue and DF Pastel Blue refer to "Pastel Blue" and/or "Silver" bodied birds.

Marek · Post by **Marek** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:15 pm

Greetings.

I don´t know about any official nomenklarture to the naming of mutations by the Gouldian finches. To the name, which I use: we should to select between the name according to genotype and phenotype.

give an example:

"Genotype" (PB SF yellow body) – phenotype (pastel green)
"Genotype" (WB SF yellow body) – phenotype (gold yellow)
"Genotype" (PB DF yellow body) – phenotype (gold yellow + purple breast)
"Genotype" (WB DF yellow body) – phenotype ( DF yellow)

"Genotype"(PB SF yellow + blue body) – phenotype (blue pastel)
"Genotype" (WB SF yellow + blue body) – phenotype (SF Silver)
"Genotype" (PB DF yellow body) – phenotype (DF Silver + Purple breast)
"Genotype" (WB DF yellow body) – phenotype ( DF silver)

Note : SF and DF indicates the number of factors yellow which is incompletely dominant.

I couldn´t force my nomenclature to anyone

My nomenclature (name according to the phenotype) is based on the traditional naming in our geographical area..

But as I wrote, is important to select between the genotype and phenotype. SF yellow could have phenotype green pastel or golden yellow - yellow with shade of green.

Phenotype depends on the color of breasts (name according to the phenotype is only auxilairy) althought the genotype is the same if we talk only about the color of body. In this issue I´ve published pics, too.

In new genetics forecaster these names wouldn´t be and the genotype will be used according to the coloring of the pigments

Greetings

Marek

Marek · Post by **Marek** » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:57 pm

Marek wrote: Greetings.

I don´t know about any official nomenklarture to the naming of mutations by the Gouldian finches. To the name, which I use: we should to select between the name according to genotype and phenotype.

give an example:

- "Genotype" (PB SF yellow body) – phenotype (pastel green) or SF yellow body purple breasted
- "Genotype" (WB SF yellow body) – phenotype (gold yellow) or SF yellow body white breasted

- "Genotype" (PB DF yellow body) – phenotype (gold yellow + purple breast) or or DF yellow body purple breasted

- "Genotype" (WB DF yellow body) – phenotype ( DF yellow) or DF yellow body white breasted

"Genotype"(PB SF yellow + blue body) – phenotype (blue pastel)
"Genotype" (WB SF yellow + blue body) – phenotype (SF Silver)
"Genotype" (PB DF yellow body) – phenotype (DF Silver + Purple breast)
"Genotype" (WB DF yellow body) – phenotype ( DF silver)

Note : SF and DF indicates the number of factors yellow which is incompletely dominant.

I couldn´t force my nomenclature to anyone My nomenclature (name according to the phenotype) is based on the traditional naming in our geographical area..

But as I wrote, is important to select between the genotype and phenotype. SF yellow could have phenotype green pastel or golden yellow - yellow with shade of green.

Phenotype depends on the color of breasts (name according to the phenotype is only auxilairy) althought the genotype is the same if we talk only about the color of body. In this issue I´ve published pics, too.

In new genetics forecaster these names wouldn´t be and the genotype will be used according to the coloring of the pigments

Greetings

Marek

Marek · Post by **Marek** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:27 am

Hi friends.

Today a French language, Portugese language, Spanish language, has been launched for the Gouldian Finch genetic forecaster, I sincerely hope that using it will aid you, you are welcome on my site.

Marek
http://www.gouldianfinches.eu/sk/geneti ... francaise/
http://www.gouldianfinches.eu/sk/geneti ... portugese/
http://www.gouldianfinches.eu/sk/geneti ... a/spanish/

Marek · Post by **Marek** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:21 pm

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