Pumpkins results are in....and you won't believe it....

[StarSpun]

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So I get a call from the vet this morning and Pumpkin has....

DUN DUN DUN....NOTHING!
She wants to treat for air sac mites. WHAT?!

I am PRETTY SURE a bird already treated with S76 for air sac mites who is eating constantly non stop and not pooping correctly, does not have air sac mites. There is no clicking. She confirmed it last time. So why are we grasping at this?

I've heard that megabacteria tests can come in negative when really positive. Does anyone know if this is true?

What else can be done? Ultrasound? I think there is something internally. I need to get to the bottom of it, and not grasp at straws.

I am so upset with NOTHING in the diagnosis when clearly something is very wrong:-(

[adoumski]

StarSpun that is surprising

what have you done so far treatment wise? other than the s76

from your previous posts i thought he would be diagnosed with some kind of protozoa or worms.

[Ginene]

Ugh!!! That's so frustrating. I'm so sorry that you and pumpkin have no real answers. Question...is your vet an avian vet or small animal vet??? Just curious. It may be difficult to diagnose pumpkin as you started him on a treatment while collecting his poop. But, ASM??? Unlikely since he was treated for it already.

[dan78]

Starspun I'm sorry to hear you have a negative result I would consider a blood test next. As for an ultrasound never heard of it done but vets are getting better in the equipment area. As for the treatment of ASM nothing to me rings bells that this is the cause as most birds don't eat or drink let alone eat and drink all day. To me a bird that eats all day and is losing weight is a good sign of worms firstly so I would start from scratch again and get a new strong wormer from the vet if possible or as I said a blood test to rule out some kind of infection. All the best.

[StarSpun]

Hey, can y'all tell me how to quote people? LOL! I don't think it worked below!

adoumski

I have done S76, Wormaway, and Cocci-Care. The tests ruled out all worms, parasites and protozoa. She explained the symptoms he was having may sound like megabacteria to me but could be the result of so many things. It was negative on a quick test from before but I read how this can be missed so I had them redo them....2 quick Gram stains and two wet ones which I will hear about the results tomorrow. She said she COULD prescribe what I want for the MegaBacteria, BUT it's hard on the kidneys. She said if he is this sick, it should show up and the place that does it are basically experts at finding it on the scope! So we'll see I guess. She has prescribed Baytril to start until we find out more info tomorrow. If this doesn't work, it's on to the next anti-biotic. Although I am not sure how much time he has, as in a week he went from 19g to 18g!!!!

Ginene

Look up Links Animial and Bird Clinic in Toronto....they are 'THE BEST'. Rick Axelton heads it. She checked for ASM, there are none. She even took a light to his neck and said you would even be able to see them in in there through the skin. NADA....see above comment for more info....
So frustrating! Hopefully the Baytril works....we'll know in 48 hours I would hope!

dan78

The nest nixed out the worms....see above comments:-( It's this bizarre? A blood test may indeed be the next step, not sure what it can tell us though. This seems to be a mystery with no easy answer!

Will update more soon....thanks everyone!!!!


EDIT!! Here is the email I sent the vet prior to our visit:

I have written down all of his symptoms, especially the new ones as of this week onto a paper and then went through everything again. Since all the tests came back negative, the only one that I assume wasn't tested over the course of 5 days of poop samples, was the megabacteria. This is for sure not air sack mites, as there are no clicking sounds and this was verified at our last visit. Air sack mites do not cause frantic eating and seed in very runny poop.

Megabacteria single poop tests are apparently only 80% accurate and the amount of people reporting false negatives online is pretty high! It is not shed each time as well. By process of elimination AND by his symptoms, I think we should treat him with Megabac-S/Amphotericin B.

Symtoms that he has which are also the Megabacteria symptoms:

1. Fluffed up - Over two months

2.Going light - Over two months

3. Frantically eating - Over one month

4. Seeds in droppings - Over one month, worse in the last two weeks.

5. Excessive mucus - I noticed this in the stool shortly after I dropped off the samples, it's very stringy! So about a week now, could have been more.

6. Reguritation of food/possible blood - no blood but in the last two weeks or so I've been noticing food always stuck and caked all over his beak, and wondered why he was so messy lately!

7. Dark green/brown watery poop - this happens quite often, although not ALWAYS, but more so in the last few days.

8. Clumsiness - As I told you during our visit, he is extremely clumsy, he falls all the time off his perches, trips while walking, can't fly right, smashes into things, can't groom his backside without loosing balance. This has been since the beginning so about 2 months.

9. Tailbobbing, especially at night - Over two months, and I have noticed it mostly at night up until about a week or two ago, where it's in the day as well.

10. Constantly adjusting crop/gagging - this has been happening more so in the last 48 hours.

11. Enlarged Abdomen - I am not sure I can accurately test for this so you can have a look when we get there. He is so thin when I check him, and the only thing that sticks out IS his abdomen, so that may be why.


I have also read that fruit can further worsen the condition because of the sugars, which as you know, he LOVES mango and we have been giving that to him....ugh! Probably making things worse. I thought to myself after our visit, it wouldn't be a bad idea to add some apple cider vinegar to his water, but, I went against my instinct only because I had him on cocci-care. I am now kicking myself because apparently ACV helps to keep megabacteria numbers down....they don't like acids!

My instinct is also telling me that this could possibly be the problem, the megabacteria. There are no signs of respiratory problems other than tail bobbing. He has been formally treated with S76 (ivermectin .8g/litre & Slippery Elm 5mg/litre) so I am just not sure that could be it, plus I cannot see it causing all the other symptoms which so accurately line up with megabacteria.

Let me know your thoughts, and will see you at 1:30! Also, not meaning to insult or anything, I am just curious if you have asked the other vets in the clinic their thoughts on this all coming back negative. Sometimes combined knowledge can be useful....not sure if you watch House or not, but....yeah;-)

Thanks again!
Cat

[Sally]

So sorry you haven't gotten any more information on Pumpkin's condition. this has to be so frustrating!

Hey, can y'all tell me how to quote people? LOL! I don't think it worked below!

I just clicked on the quote button in the lower right hand corner of your post. Then, since I only wanted to quote this part of it, I deleted all the rest. I don't know why it didn't quote text for you.

[finchmix22]

If you are giving him Baytril, that will hopefully help. You could also give him Probiotics, after the Baytril to get his digestive system back on track. If he is having green/watery droppings, definitely stop the fruit temporarily, at least until he recovers. The tests may come back negative because you treated with Worm Away etc. So, that may mask any protozoa or fungal problems. Keep us posted.

[StarSpun]

So sorry you haven't gotten any more information on Pumpkin's condition. this has to be so frustrating!

Hey, can y'all tell me how to quote people? LOL! I don't think it worked below!

I just clicked on the quote button in the lower right hand corner of your post. Then, since I only wanted to quote this part of it, I deleted all the rest. I don't know why it didn't quote text for you.

Heya!

Oh the quote I know how to do, but it's the highlighting of the persons name I can't seem to get.... ha ha!
It is frustrating about Pumpkin. Going to write an update shortly.

[StarSpun]

If you are giving him Baytril, that will hopefully help. You could also give him Probiotics, after the Baytril to get his digestive system back on track. If he is having green/watery droppings, definitely stop the fruit temporarily, at least until he recovers. The tests may come back negative because you treated with Worm Away etc. So, that may mask any protozoa or fungal problems. Keep us posted.

Heya!

So far with the Baytril, I have not noticed anything outstanding. He is still not very active and constantly eats:-( I guess after a couple more days we may move on to other things. I ordered Morning Bird stuff....Ronex, Amoxitex, and Tetratex. Not sure if I should try these after or not. He keeps losing weight so I'm running out of time!

The Wormaway I treated him with awhile ago, so that can't be it. He's been screened for all of that, so not sure what it is or what to do at this point:-(

[delray]

Star tag peoples names by using the At symbol. @ and then the person will be notified that you tagged them. starspun

[wildbird]

All of these drugs can't be good for your bird. He may have a condition that is not treatable with drugs. Is there another avian vet in your area? Other people who raise or sell birds could give you a reccomendation.

[monotwine]

Shame. So frustrating for you. Baytril is still one of the best broad spectrum anti bacterial, with little resistance to it from pathogens.
The only other suspect than mega bacteria is fungus or mould infection (aflatoxicosus) which can be environmental or ingested.

Terrible not knowing what's wrong. Not all things can be seen in tests. So sorry

[Smurf]

So sorry to hear that Pumpkin is not improving, your doing everything possible for him.

Only thing i can think of which hasn't been ruled out and is difficult to both diagnose and treat is as monotwine suggested a fungus, such as aspergillosis.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 9&aid=2384

[Colt]

Been following pumpkin's saga for a while now. How is the little eating machine doing?

[lovezebs]

Hi All.
Not an expert, but I agree with Wildbird. I am thinking, too many meds!
Have you tried just changing his seed diet to another brand? What is he eating in the seed department? Then offer probiotics to help his poor little guts?
From the fact that he's constantly eating and losing weight, makes me think he's not getting enough nutrition from his diet.
Another possibility is cancer. You mention a large abdomen, is it possible that he has a tumor of some sort?